Top Ten QB Draft Busts of the Last 20 Years

    This will be the first in a series of articles reflecting on the last 20 years of the draft (1990-2009), and the biggest draft busts per position.


    We’ll start with the obvious, the quarterback. So, what constitutes a bust? Well, first off, you have to be a first round draft pick, the higher in the round the better. Any player, especially QB, taken later than the first round is merely a source of hope, but a first rounder is regarded as a savior. Also, the higher the pick, the bigger the bust, meaning if two players have a similar career path, but one was a 3rd pick and the other a 24th, then it’s obvious who the bigger bust will be.


    The quarterback might have a higher bust per draft pick ratio than any other position in football. Many very notable names will not even make the top ten, and without further adieu, here is the list.


    Before we get to number ten, here are some honorable mentions. Four top overall picks find themselves on this list, Jeff George, Tim Couch, Alex Smith and David Carr. Also on the honorable mention list is Rick Mirer, Joey Harrington, Patrick Ramsey, Rex Grossman and J.P. Losman.


    Here we go…


    #10 – Jim Druckenmiller - #26 pick, 1997 draft – 49ers
    Perhaps the beginning of the end for the run of quarterbacks that the San Francisco 49ers enjoyed. Along with later selecting Alex Smith, the 49ers are one of several teams with two candidates for the list, perhaps explaining their fall into NFL mediocrity over the last decade. Druckenmiller was selected 26th overall out of Virginia Tech. The late selection saved him from being higher on this list, as no other QB has a less impressive stat line. Druckenmiller managed a stellar six game career, completed 40% of his passes, amassed 236 yards and threw for one touchdown, while tossing four interceptions. The one saving grace for San Francisco was this, only Jake Plummer had himself even a marginal career from this class of QB’s. The only other QB even worth mentioning was Koy Detmer, a 7th round selection of the Philadelphia Eagles.


    #9 – Dan McGwire - #16 pick, 1991 draft – Seahawks
    How bad was Dan McGwire? Seattle drafted him in the first round of the 1991 draft, and by 1993 already decided to draft another first round QB, Rick Mirer. Not that Mirer fared all that much better. McGwire has a bigger claim to fame, of course. He is the brother of baseball slugger Mark McGwire, and I think the Seahawks would have preferred to have Mark. McGwire was the first QB selected in 1991 out of San Diego State after two seasons at Iowa, and his career stat line was obviously pathetic, leading to the selection of Mirer just two years later. McGwire managed to show up for 13 games, only passed for 745 yards, and had a stellar TD:Int ratio of 2 to 6. So, who did the Seahawks miss out on? In what was otherwise another extremely weak class for QB’s, the 33rd pick that season was Brett Favre.

    #8 – Cade McNown - #12 pick, 1999 draft – Bears
    Like the 49ers and Seahawks , Chicago also has the privilege of two great candidates for the bust list, McNown and the later selection of Grossman. 1999 was supposed to be the reincarnation of the 1983 draft for QB’s, one that gave us three Hall of Famers, Elway, Marino and Kelly. However, a decade later we see that there is no comparison from that class to this one. That draft’s first round also included the likes of Todd Blackledge, whose only claim to the Hall is that he’s born in Canton, Ohio. McNown could be compared to Blackledge in that nature. Cade, out of UCLA was the 12th overall selection that season, but already the 5th QB off the board. He ended up playing in 25 games and amassing 3,111 yards with 16 TD’s and 19 Int’s. After two seasons in Chicago, the Dolphins and 49ers quickly gave up on him also, and McNown was out of the league by 2003. While certainly not world beaters, the Bears could have ended up with Shaun King, Brock Huard, Aaron Brooks or Michael Bishop that season.


    #7 – David Klingler - #6 pick, 1992 draft – Bengals
    We will now enter the Bengals/Raiders section of the countdown, beginning with this gem by Cincinnati. Klingler had a stellar career at the University of Houston, and lost the 1991 Heisman Trophy to BYU signal caller Ty Detmer, who ironically was the last QB selected in this draft, yet had a better career than Klingler, selected 224 slots earlier. As Boomer Esiason’s career was coming to its end, the team was high on Klingler continuing what Boomer started in the 80’s. Instead, he was perhaps the biggest reason Cincinnati ended up losing more games than any other NFL team in the 1990’s. Klingler’s NFL career consisted of 33 appearances, finishing his career 6 yards shy of 4,000 yards, and had 16 TD’s compared with 22 Int’s. Other than Detmer, who could the Bengals have been better off with? Well, again, no world beaters, but the list includes Tommy Maddox, Craig Erickson, Casey Weldon, Jeff Blake and Brad Johnson.


    #6 – JaMarcus Russell - #1 pick, 2007 draft – Raiders
    While I don’t necessarily like to put players who still have a chance to improve their lot in life on a countdown like this, I’ll make an exception for this former LSU Tiger. What makes Russell’s career so interesting is his regression. He’s getting worse as his career progresses. A completion percentage of 54.3% in his rookie season has been followed by 53.8% in 2008 and 48.8% last season. After a 2008 season that saw him throw for a respectable 13 TD’s and 8 Int’s, he turned that around nicely a year later, throwing only three touchdowns with 11 picks. I think Russell’s spot on this list is fairly well cemented, but, of course, he can still prove me wrong. Good luck!


    #5 – Todd Marinovich - #24 pick, 1991 draft – Raiders
    Continuing with the Raiders theme, we now come to Todd Marinovich, Southern Cal standout. Marinovich was much attended to even in high school, and had a much higher than normal profile by the time he reached the league, even when compared to other first round draft picks. Marinovich only ended playing (and starting) 8 games for the Raiders over the course of two seasons, completing half of his passes for 1,345 yards, 8 TD’s and 9 interceptions. Starting (at least) his rookie season and continuing on through today, Marinovich has had a string of run-ins with the law, mostly related to his drug use, ranging from Marijuana to amphetamines to heroin. He did have a short but successful stint in the Arena League, but in the end, Marinovich is just another child prodigy whose life went awry.


    #4 – Akili Smith - #3 pick, 1999 draft – Bengals
    Did I mention this was the Bengals/Raiders section of the countdown? The last four players mentioned were drafted by those two teams, and Akili Smith also joins fellow Class of ’99 busts Cade McNown and Tim Couch. A highly regarded dual threat QB coming out of Oregon, Smith was selected third overall, behind Couch and Donovan McNabb. And, well, that’s about it. He played four years in Cincinnati, but was pretty much given up on after his second season. For his career, Smith appeared in 22 games and amassed 2,212 yards with all of five touchdowns and 13 interceptions. Add Daunte Culpepper to the list of alternative QB’s mentioned earlier with Cade McNown. And that concludes the Bengals/Raiders section of the countdown. While Seattle, Detroit, Washington, San Francisco and Chicago all had two candidates, only Cincinnati and Oakland managed to put both in the top ten. Congratulations!


    #3 – Heath Shuler - #3 pick, 1994 draft – Redskins
    Coming out of the University of Tennessee, Shuler was one of the highest regarded QB’s to enter the draft in recent history, perhaps falling second only to Drew Bledsoe during the mid 90’s. Drafted third overall by the Redskins in ’94, Shuler didn’t last long. He was paired with another rookie, Gus Frerotte, who Washington selected in the 7th round, 194 spots behind Shuler. Heath Shuler is likely the only first round rookie QB to finish the season behind a 7th round rookie on the depth chart. Shuler managed to play in 29 games for Washington and New Orleans, finishing his career with 3,691 yards, 15 touchdowns and 33 interceptions. At least Washington hedged their bet with the Frerotte selection, the only other QB to have an NFL career out of that draft class was Trent Dilfer, and he too is a borderline candidate for this list.


    #2 – Andre Ware - #7 pick, 1990 draft – Lions
    It worked so well for Detroit in 1989, somehow not so much a year later. Detroit joined Tampa Bay (Bo Jackson, Vinny Testaverde) as the only team to select the Heisman trophy winner in the first round in consecutive drafts. But what was a homerun in Barry Sanders quickly became an unassisted triple play with this Houston Cougar. Perhaps the beginning of the end for the Lions franchise, who, while never that successful, were also not the laughingstock of the league that they are now. That title belonged to teams like the Bucs and Bengals during the 80’s and 90’s. Andre Ware started his first game for the Lions in 1992 and his last in 1993. In his 14 game NFL career, Ware managed 1,112 yards, 5 touchdowns and 8 interceptions. While the 1990 draft was yet another weak one for QB’s, but players like Neil O’Donnell, Scott Mitchell (came to Detroit in ’94 after failed Ware career), and John Friesz all had at least somewhat better careers.


    #1 – Ryan Leaf - #2 draft, 1998 draft – Chargers
    I tried, I really did. When I came up with the idea for this piece, it was with the plan to convince myself, and you, that Ryan Leaf was, in fact, not the biggest QB bust of the last two decades. Going into the list, my odds on favorite was Shuler, with Ware closely behind. And while those two certainly finished high on the list, I could not get myself to put either of them ahead of Leaf on the final list. In 1990, the Indianapolis Colts had the #1 draft pick and selected Jeff George, bust. Eight years later and we’ll never know just how close they came to making the same mistake. But, instead, Indy grabbed Peyton, and the rest is draft bust history. The Chargers entered the off-season with the #3 selection, but spent two first rounders, a second rounder and All-Pro returner Eric Metcalf to Phoenix in order to secure themselves one of the QB’s. Well, they certainly didn’t get fair market value in return. In addition to his many media blowups, Leaf played only three seasons in San Diego and added one in Dallas before calling it a career. Leaf appeared in a mere 25 games, threw for 3,666 yards, 14 touchdowns and an astonishing 36 interceptions. His 48.4% career completion percentage and 50.0 QB rating are bested on this list only by Druckenmiller.
    Comments 25 Comments
    1. RaidenDAWG2's Avatar
      I'd almost argue Ryan Leaf was the biggest bust in common draft era history.

      But hey, that's just me.
    1. Texecutioner's Avatar
      I don't know if Leaf is totally the biggest bust really. There have been a few QB's that were dreadful just like he was. He was just the most immature, so his play on the field gets talked about more. In reality to me, he was just another failed #1 draft pick at the QB position to me. I don't really see how he was that different than a few others who didn't make it like David Carr or Tim Couch or Jeff George.

      How David Carr isn't on this list is beyond me. He easily belongs on there over some of these men.
    1. ruuuuudiii</a><br /><span class='glow_FFFF00'><span style='color: #8B0000'>28 Out Perfect Game!</span></span><a href='#'>'s Avatar
      I don't know if Leaf is totally the biggest bust really. There have been a few QB's that were dreadful just like he was. He was just the most immature, so his play on the field gets talked about more. In reality to me, he was just another failed #1 draft pick at the QB position to me. I don't really see how he was that different than a few others who didn't make it like David Carr or Tim Couch or Jeff George.

      How David Carr isn't on this list is beyond me. He easily belongs on there over some of these men.
      Carr (as well as Couch and George) were mentioned in the honorable mention section, but quite frankly, not only do I think Carr is not top ten, he would also be behind Alex Smith, Grossman, Couch and Ramsey. (Maybe not Ramsey on 2nd thought, Carr was the top pick, Ramsey was a 32nd).

      But Carr had a career of 64 TD's and 14,693 yards. Not what you want from the number one pick, but still better than the top ten on this list.
    1. Hawkeye's Avatar
      Granted, final production is all that matters, but I'm willing to give some latitude to Andre Ware, since he didn't really get a chance. I mean for the #7 overall pick, he got less PT than Joey Harrington. Detroit was to blame for the ruination of three QBs (Chuck Long, Rodney Peete and Ware). Just like we worry about college QBs today who play in spread offenses not having experience under center, back then it was the opposite. Long and Pete were guys that played in conventional offenses and they were plugged into a spread offense.
    1. GlasstheGrey's Avatar
      I honestly don't think David Carr was THAT bad, He just played on a really horrible team.
    1. BigBenCan7's Avatar
      Quote Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
      I don't know if Leaf is totally the biggest bust really. There have been a few QB's that were dreadful just like he was. He was just the most immature, so his play on the field gets talked about more. In reality to me, he was just another failed #1 draft pick at the QB position to me. I don't really see how he was that different than a few others who didn't make it like David Carr or Tim Couch or Jeff George.

      How David Carr isn't on this list is beyond me. He easily belongs on there over some of these men.
      You haven't seen Ryan Leaf's stats if you don't see how he was different from David Carr or Tim Couch or Jeff George. He was unquestionably the biggest bust of the guys on or off that list.
    1. Dreamers's Avatar
      No Vick, Alex Smith, David Carr, or Tim Couch? Jim Druckenmiller did bad but as far as bust go they were all much bigger at #1 overall. Putting Jim in here is the like putting Browning Nagle, Jim was barely a 1st rounder and #1 overalls are supposed to be the cream of the crop. Leaf and Russel are 1 and 2 if you ask me. Russell is the biggest #1 overall bust in history and had a good group of guys around him. He has to be higher then 6. Some of these guys failed in large part do to lack of talent around them Russell does not have that tag IMO. I think that is the one thing that may make him a bigger bust then Leaf was.
    1. Whit Prowdy's Avatar
      Quote Originally Posted by Dreamers View Post
      No Vick, Alex Smith, David Carr, or Tim Couch? Jim Druckenmiller did bad but as far as bust go they were all much bigger at #1 overall. Putting Jim in here is the like putting Browning Nagle, Jim was barely a 1st rounder and #1 overalls are supposed to be the cream of the crop. Leaf and Russel are 1 and 2 if you ask me. Russell is the biggest #1 overall bust in history and had a good group of guys around him. He has to be higher then 6. Some of these guys failed in large part do to lack of talent around them Russell does not have that tag IMO. I think that is the one thing that may make him a bigger bust then Leaf was.
      Vick isn't a bust, IMO. He was an electric player and took Atlanta to the NFCCG one year...but made a horrible decision and was forced out of the league. That has no bearing on his on-field competency as it applies to this article...I believe he'd still be doing alright with Atlanta if he didn't get caught up in dogfighting.

      You're definitely onto something with Tim Couch though.
    1. Dreamers's Avatar
      Quote Originally Posted by Whit Prowdy View Post
      Vick isn't a bust, IMO. He was an electric player and took Atlanta to the NFCCG one year...but made a horrible decision and was forced out of the league. That has no bearing on his on-field competency as it applies to this article...I believe he'd still be doing alright with Atlanta if he didn't get caught up in dogfighting.

      You're definitely onto something with Tim Couch though.
      He never threw for more then 3k yards in his career and was a very poor QB that was drafted #1 overall. VICK=BUST
    1. Whit Prowdy's Avatar
      Quote Originally Posted by Dreamers View Post
      He never threw for more then 3k yards in his career and was a very poor QB that was drafted #1 overall. VICK=BUST
      You and I both know he was never a pure pocket passer, so let's throw the 3,000 yards in a season defense out the window (although yes, he could have done better in that regard, he made up for it with his legs). Over the four years he started the entire season with Atlanta he racked up 3,315 rushing yards and 19 rushing touchdowns, coupled with 10,133 passing yards and a 65-46 TD-INT ratio. Alone those stats are weak, but together they're not half bad. Vick was a fine balance of passing and rushing, and that made him a dynamic player that put fans in the stands until his unfortunate leave from the league.

      Bust quarterbacks don't win playoff games. Bust quarterbacks don't come within a game of heading to the Superbowl. Vick wasn't a bust.
    1. Texecutioner's Avatar
      Quote Originally Posted by ruuuuudiii View Post
      Carr (as well as Couch and George) were mentioned in the honorable mention section, but quite frankly, not only do I think Carr is not top ten, he would also be behind Alex Smith, Grossman, Couch and Ramsey. (Maybe not Ramsey on 2nd thought, Carr was the top pick, Ramsey was a 32nd).

      But Carr had a career of 64 TD's and 14,693 yards. Not what you want from the number one pick, but still better than the top ten on this list.
      To say that those guys were worse than Carr is absurd. Especially Grossman when he went to a SB. Yeah, it may have been mainly defense, but he still didn't screw his team's chances from week to week and make his O line look even worse. Carr never started for a team that was over 500 even. And do you forget that Carr was throwing to Andre Johnson and Jabar Gaffney and handing the ball off to Domanick Davis who was a damn good RB for like 3 years before getting hurt. Gaffney looked awful until going to another team where a QB could get him the ball. Johnson was a stud from the moment he touched the field in the NFL. Carr had some nice weapons to use and he still sucked and was atrocious for 5 seasons with the Texans and then stunk it up in Carolina and made their O line look worse there to. ANd now he's just a back up in NY. Carr's easily been one of the worst busts in history and belongs higher on that list.
    1. Dreamers's Avatar
      Quote Originally Posted by Whit Prowdy View Post
      You and I both know he was never a pure pocket passer, so let's throw the 3,000 yards in a season defense out the window (although yes, he could have done better in that regard, he made up for it with his legs). Over the four years he started the entire season with Atlanta he racked up 3,315 rushing yards and 19 rushing touchdowns, coupled with 10,133 passing yards and a 65-46 TD-INT ratio. Alone those stats are weak, but together they're not half bad. Vick was a fine balance of passing and rushing, and that made him a dynamic player that put fans in the stands until his unfortunate leave from the league.

      Bust quarterbacks don't win playoff games. Bust quarterbacks don't come within a game of heading to the Superbowl. Vick wasn't a bust.
      Check that again because there have been a few bust QBs to win playoff games. Did not Rex Grossman win a few. Dilfer even made it to a SB. Bad QBs can win games if they have a good team around them and Vick had a good team around him. Going to the playoffs does not make him a viable QB nor does running the ball. LT has a good QB rating too but I'm not calling him a good QB. To say Vick was not a bust is just wrong. He was a #1 overall that never did a good job at QB. #1s are supposed to be great players not a side note. That is what makes guys like David Carr and Joey Harrington busts. They did not make that top end grade. It does not matter why it happen the pick was still a bust. Vick failed on most levels winning a playoff game does not take him out of the bust cat.
    1. l.a. no-teamers's Avatar
      I think Cade McNown could have been good had he gone to the right team off the bat. He didn't have the size or rocket arm, but he was a very good QB who had that extra sense on the field. I do believe he had a lot of Steve Young in him. He was put on a bad team, in bad conditions (which didn't fit well for a QB without a strong arm), and didn't get much of a chance to succeed because the fans turned on him after he turned on them. Then he got a serious shoulder injury shortly thereafter.

      But if you just look at how he did statistically, it wasn't absolutely awful given how bad his team was and the fact he was a very young player.
    1. ruuuuudiii</a><br /><span class='glow_FFFF00'><span style='color: #8B0000'>28 Out Perfect Game!</span></span><a href='#'>'s Avatar
      No Vick, Alex Smith, David Carr, or Tim Couch? Jim Druckenmiller did bad but as far as bust go they were all much bigger at #1 overall. Putting Jim in here is the like putting Browning Nagle, Jim was barely a 1st rounder and #1 overalls are supposed to be the cream of the crop. Leaf and Russel are 1 and 2 if you ask me. Russell is the biggest #1 overall bust in history and had a good group of guys around him. He has to be higher then 6. Some of these guys failed in large part do to lack of talent around them Russell does not have that tag IMO. I think that is the one thing that may make him a bigger bust then Leaf was.
      Again, Smith, Carr and Couch were all honorable mentions, and if I had to go with one of those to put on the list, it's probably Couch. But still, their stats and careers were, while inadequate when compared to their expectations, better than the the ten that finally made the top ten list. And I don't consider Vick as much of a bust as any of the guys I mentioned. He would go onto the next tier, perhaps with guys like Campbell and Quinn (yet to be determined).

      Quote Originally Posted by Dreamers View Post
      He never threw for more then 3k yards in his career and was a very poor QB that was drafted #1 overall. VICK=BUST
      Most of the guys on the top ten didn't manage 3k yards for their career.

      Quote Originally Posted by l.a. no-teamers View Post
      I think Cade McNown could have been good had he gone to the right team off the bat. He didn't have the size or rocket arm, but he was a very good QB who had that extra sense on the field. I do believe he had a lot of Steve Young in him. He was put on a bad team, in bad conditions (which didn't fit well for a QB without a strong arm), and didn't get much of a chance to succeed because the fans turned on him after he turned on them. Then he got a serious shoulder injury shortly thereafter.

      But if you just look at how he did statistically, it wasn't absolutely awful given how bad his team was and the fact he was a very young player.
      Well, they're all young players, and yeah, they were all absolutely awful. And I'm sure circumstances had a lot to do with many of the players mentioned.
    1. ruuuuudiii</a><br /><span class='glow_FFFF00'><span style='color: #8B0000'>28 Out Perfect Game!</span></span><a href='#'>'s Avatar
      To say that those guys were worse than Carr is absurd. Especially Grossman when he went to a SB. Yeah, it may have been mainly defense, but he still didn't screw his team's chances from week to week and make his O line look even worse. Carr never started for a team that was over 500 even. And do you forget that Carr was throwing to Andre Johnson and Jabar Gaffney and handing the ball off to Domanick Davis who was a damn good RB for like 3 years before getting hurt. Gaffney looked awful until going to another team where a QB could get him the ball. Johnson was a stud from the moment he touched the field in the NFL. Carr had some nice weapons to use and he still sucked and was atrocious for 5 seasons with the Texans and then stunk it up in Carolina and made their O line look worse there to. ANd now he's just a back up in NY. Carr's easily been one of the worst busts in history and belongs higher on that list.

      I think you're trying to convince me of Carr because he was a Texan. But come on, don't tell me about how he never QB'ed a .500 team, he was the first QB of a franchise team, what did you expect. Hell, the Texans didn't hit .500 for a couple more seasons after Carr left. Carr is a bust, no question, but not top ten caliber when compared to the ones on the list.
    1. Hawkeye's Avatar
      Quote Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
      To say that those guys were worse than Carr is absurd. Especially Grossman when he went to a SB. Yeah, it may have been mainly defense, but he still didn't screw his team's chances from week to week and make his O line look even worse. Carr never started for a team that was over 500 even. And do you forget that Carr was throwing to Andre Johnson and Jabar Gaffney and handing the ball off to Domanick Davis who was a damn good RB for like 3 years before getting hurt. Gaffney looked awful until going to another team where a QB could get him the ball. Johnson was a stud from the moment he touched the field in the NFL. Carr had some nice weapons to use and he still sucked and was atrocious for 5 seasons with the Texans and then stunk it up in Carolina and made their O line look worse there to. ANd now he's just a back up in NY. Carr's easily been one of the worst busts in history and belongs higher on that list.
      Come on man.......Carr was a bust to be sure, but the Texans got a LOT more out of their investment than any of these other teams got from the guys on this list. None of the guys on the list saw more than 33 games (Carr hads 85). No way he belongs on this list with guys that barely saw the light of day. He's not on there for the same reason Joey harrington isn't on there.....because their teams got a LOT more mileage out of their investments.

      Granted Johnson was a stud, BUT you can't expect us to take your Jabar Gaffney argument seriously can you? He didn't have the best season of his career in yards until this year (that includes three years with the Pats). His best year in catches was with David Carr as well as the two years tied for third. Two of the top three years of his career in yards were with Carr and so was his best year in average. His three years in NE were pretty similar to his four years in Houston, so what does that say about Tom Brady if you're laying his lack of production on the QB?
    1. Hawkeye's Avatar
      Quote Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
      To say that those guys were worse than Carr is absurd. Especially Grossman when he went to a SB. Yeah, it may have been mainly defense, but he still didn't screw his team's chances from week to week and make his O line look even worse. Carr never started for a team that was over 500 even. And do you forget that Carr was throwing to Andre Johnson and Jabar Gaffney and handing the ball off to Domanick Davis who was a damn good RB for like 3 years before getting hurt. Gaffney looked awful until going to another team where a QB could get him the ball. Johnson was a stud from the moment he touched the field in the NFL. Carr had some nice weapons to use and he still sucked and was atrocious for 5 seasons with the Texans and then stunk it up in Carolina and made their O line look worse there to. ANd now he's just a back up in NY. Carr's easily been one of the worst busts in history and belongs higher on that list.
      Come on man.......Carr was a bust to be sure, but the Texans got a LOT more out of their investment than any of these other teams got from the guys on this list. None of the guys on the list saw more than 33 games (Carr had 85). No way he belongs on this list with guys that barely saw the light of day. He's not on there for the same reason Joey harrington isn't on there.....because their teams got a LOT more mileage out of their investments.

      Granted Johnson was a stud, BUT you can't expect us to take your Jabar Gaffney argument seriously can you? He didn't have the best season of his career in yards until this year (that includes three years with the Pats). His best year in catches was with David Carr as well as the two years tied for third. Two of the top three years of his career in yards were with Carr and so was his best year in average. His three years in NE were pretty similar to his four years in Houston, so what does that say about Tom Brady if you're laying his lack of production on the QB?
    1. Texecutioner's Avatar
      Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
      Come on man.......Carr was a bust to be sure, but the Texans got a LOT more out of their investment than any of these other teams got from the guys on this list. None of the guys on the list saw more than 33 games (Carr had 85). No way he belongs on this list with guys that barely saw the light of day. He's not on there for the same reason Joey harrington isn't on there.....because their teams got a LOT more mileage out of their investments.

      Granted Johnson was a stud, BUT you can't expect us to take your Jabar Gaffney argument seriously can you? He didn't have the best season of his career in yards until this year (that includes three years with the Pats). His best year in catches was with David Carr as well as the two years tied for third. Two of the top three years of his career in yards were with Carr and so was his best year in average. His three years in NE were pretty similar to his four years in Houston, so what does that say about Tom Brady if you're laying his lack of production on the QB?

      THis argument makes no sense.

      First off Carr was given way extra leeway, because he went to a brand new franchise and he was held up as a king when he first got here. He had a lame duck coach in Capers who had no clue what he was doing and no pressure from the owner to take the guy out. People all over this city swore by Carr, because he had the good looks and the bright personality. They were going to stick with Carr for as long as they could and they did. He would have been pulled much earlier on any competent team and that's exactly why the Texans ended up going from 5-11, to 7-9, back to 2-14. That's a huge drop off and Carr was the main reason for it. He was awful, and then was even given another shot after that when Kubes got here and Kubiak couldn't believe what he didn't know. He never worked real hard out here either. He didn't put in any of the extra time in the film room like young QB's are supposed to. He didn't do any of that stuff.

      And Gaffney?? Are you kidding me? You don't even realize what you're arguing at all here?? You're trying to compare his numbers from NE to his years in Houston when he was a #2 WR in Houston and had a lot more balls thrown his way. The Texans didn't have a TE to throw to back then either. He was one of the main targeted guys. In NE he started out as the 4th freaking option on a team with Randy Moss and Welker. How the hell do you try comparing those situations as far as catches?? And Gaffney didn't even have his best season until his first year in NE. He never made plays like that in Houston. Even as a 4th or 5th option in NE he was a much more effective player than he ever was in Houston in any of his years. He went from a completely dysfunctional offense ran by David Carr and Joe Pendry to playing with one of the best QB's of all time and for BB and he looked like a much better player and has ever since.
    1. Texecutioner's Avatar
      Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
      Come on man.......Carr was a bust to be sure, but the Texans got a LOT more out of their investment than any of these other teams got from the guys on this list. None of the guys on the list saw more than 33 games (Carr had 85). No way he belongs on this list with guys that barely saw the light of day. He's not on there for the same reason Joey harrington isn't on there.....because their teams got a LOT more mileage out of their investments.

      Granted Johnson was a stud, BUT you can't expect us to take your Jabar Gaffney argument seriously can you? He didn't have the best season of his career in yards until this year (that includes three years with the Pats). His best year in catches was with David Carr as well as the two years tied for third. Two of the top three years of his career in yards were with Carr and so was his best year in average. His three years in NE were pretty similar to his four years in Houston, so what does that say about Tom Brady if you're laying his lack of production on the QB?

      THis argument makes no sense.

      First off Carr was given way extra leeway, because he went to a brand new franchise and he was held up as a king when he first got here. He had a lame duck coach in Capers who had no clue what he was doing and no pressure from the owner to take the guy out. People all over this city swore by Carr, because he had the good looks and the bright personality and they wanted him to success so freaking bad. Fans were so happy and excited about having a football team again, that they didn't care about his struggles until like year 4. They were going to stick with Carr for as long as they could and they did. He would have been pulled much earlier on any competent team and that's exactly why the Texans ended up going from 5-11, to 7-9, back to 2-14. That's a huge drop off and Carr was the main reason for it. He was awful, and then was even given another shot after that when Kubes got here and Kubiak couldn't believe what he didn't know. He never worked real hard out here either. He didn't put in any of the extra time in the film room like young QB's are supposed to. He didn't do any of that stuff.

      And Gaffney?? Are you kidding me? You don't even realize what you're arguing at all here?? You're trying to compare his numbers from NE to his years in Houston when he was a #2 WR in Houston and had a lot more balls thrown his way. The Texans didn't have a TE to throw to back then either. He was one of the main targeted guys. In NE he started out as the 4th freaking option on a team with Randy Moss and Welker. How the hell do you try comparing those situations as far as catches?? And Gaffney didn't even have his best season until his first year in NE. He never made plays like that in Houston. Even as a 4th or 5th option in NE he was a much more effective player than he ever was in Houston in any of his years. He went from a completely dysfunctional offense ran by David Carr and Joe Pendry to playing with one of the best QB's of all time and for BB and he looked like a much better player and has ever since.

    The Forums

    Have you checked out the Pigskin Heaven Forums lately? Stop by today for more hard hitting discussion and content, much like the articles you're reading now, and as always, it's 100% free. So register today, and get in on all the action!