Falcons criticize Suh, Avril

[Sascha]

First off, let me say this. When Matt Ryan went down, I was 100% sure he wasn't taking his next snap until next August, the way his ankle bent looked just short of Theismanesque to me. So, I'd like to hear what Suh and Avril have to say about these criticisms of trash talking and taunting of Ryan while he was down. Avril did say on twitter that he would never taunt an injured player.

I love trash talking, the sound bites you hear on Inside the NFL, or on Sound FX and other shows are my favorite part of the week. But there is a line, and if what the Falcons say is true, it was crossed, big time. There is no place, even in football, for that.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Falcons-rip-Suh-for-taunting-Matt-Ryan-after-thi?urn=nfl-wp10203

[Blackmallard]

Suh is as dirty as they come.

[Peter Smith]

How bout those pussies stop the run and beat the Falcons?

[The Gopher]

Suh is as dirty as they come.

Agreed. I really wanted to like Suh, but I think his next infraction should result in a suspension. He's a repeat offender that has shown zero sign of toning it down.

[Sascha]

Well, this isn't really an infraction. He wasn't the reason Ryan got hurt, he was stepped on by his own lineman.

[The Gopher]

Well, this isn't really an infraction. He wasn't the reason Ryan got hurt, he was stepped on by his own lineman.

I'm not talking about this play specifically. Suh is a dirty player... his facemask on Ryan earlier in the game is indicative of that. the next time Suh does something fine-able, it should become a suspension is what i meant by post.

[Sascha]

Come on! You're grasping. You can certainly come up with good examples, Delhomme and Dalton for two, but the facemask on Ryan was nothing more than a generic play you see every week. Not dirty in the least, just a 15 yards penalty and let's move on.

But saying "Bring on the Cart" when Ryan is laying on the ground clutching his leg? Not much class there. Can't wait to see what, if anything, the NFL Films microphones picked up.

And yeah, I'm sure he will soon have suspension on another fine-able offense. Not sure what the ladder of punishment is, but he can't be too far away from losing a game check.

[Thedeprivedwriter]

I wanted to wait for a little while before I commented on this because I wanted to digest as much information and as much insight as possible.

I think Suh may have crossed the "so called" line in trash talking, and I'll elaborate on that in a second. Then again someone saying "Go get the cart" or "Get him off the field" isn't nearly as bad as some of the things that could have been said. In fact I think you can look at those phrases in two very different contexts.

Trent Dilfer just said it best on SC. People want to glorify sports, and idolize their favorite players. They want to imagine themselves in the game, so on so forth...but this is the stuff that goes on behind the curtain that no one wants to hear. Trash talk is meant to be the most horrific stuff and the purpose of saying it is to get the other person off of their game mentally. Remember when Charlie Villanueva was called a cancer patient by Kevin Garnett? There was a slight uproar about that as well but it seems that everyone has forgotten about it, or atleast put it in the back of their minds.

Now I think the main issue that a lot of people are having is that Suh (and apparently Avril, although he's denying), was trash talking to an injured player on the field. This is where the unwritten rule of trash talking comes into play. However there's another unwritten rule that was broken in that whatever goes on, on the field, stays on the field. Last week Jim Schwartz could have easily said "Harbaugh called me an *explicit*" but instead of giving the media something to chew on, he said that something was said and that he was going to leave it at that.

I'm sure there's a lot of trash talk that goes on during a game that is much worse than what the media is making this out to be. Ever since Suh was mentioned as a dirty player, it seems that every action he does is being put under a microscope. The generic play that Sascha talked about, becomes a dirty play because of who is trying to make the tackle. Yes it was an obvious facemask, but that stuff happens in every game. It's only referenced as a dirty play because Suh is the one trying to make the tackle.

So those are my two cents. I'm not personally a fan of what Suh allegedly did, but like I said it's part of what trash talking is to an extent and if you don't like it as a player then leave it on the field, or bring it up with the player personally.

[Blackmallard]

Ever since Suh was mentioned as a dirty player, it seems that every action he does is being put under a microscope.

He wasn't mentioned as a dirty player out of nowhere, he picked up Jake Delhomme and slammed him back onto the ground. At that point he dug himself a hole, and he's been digging it deeper ever since. Some players are dirty, and people will go to great lengths to look the other way.


So those are my two cents. I'm not personally a fan of what Suh allegedly did, but like I said it's part of what trash talking is to an extent and if you don't like it as a player then leave it on the field, or bring it up with the player personally.

You know another way they could have handled this is by chop blocking Suh and taking out your knees right? Be glad they settled for calling him out.

[Texecutioner]

The criticism that Suh gets is warranted. He is a great player though and fun to watch so many people downplay it. If you're talking trash and saying things like what Garnett supposedly said about a guy with cancer and stuff like that is definitely over the line to where you deserve to get injured and have your career potentially threatened. It's one thing to go out there and compete with your opponents and even hate them to a certain degree, but to say things so personal on a level like that is just pathetic. If Garnett said what was reported to someone like that, nothing bad that would happen in his career would make me feel sorry for him. At some point you've simply got to seperate yourself from being a highly competitive athlete who is intense instead of being complete scum that just happens to be athletic. There is no place for "that kind" of trash talk in any sport.

[The Gopher]

Read an article on Yahoo that quoted Suh saying the injury was Karma for Atlanta's dirty line play. So if that's true, Suh must have a major injury in the old Karma pipeline.

[Sascha]

1- Tex - Villanueva doesn't actually have cancer.

2- Curt - The Karma thing was a bit weird, especially since Detroit's own QB was injured on the last play of the game.

3- It has been fun to watch how this has completely backfired on Atlanta in the media, especially from former players.

4- Mallard - Why a chop block? Why not just call Suh out on the field, push him, shove him, punch him, whatever. Though, I would imagine a chop would have come across much better than whining to the media.

[Blackmallard]

4- Mallard - Why a chop block? Why not just call Suh out on the field, push him, shove him, punch him, whatever. Though, I would imagine a chop would have come across much better than whining to the media.
After an O-lineman rolls up his knee and puts him on IR for the rest of the season Suh's defenders can listen to talking heads say the guy who did it isn't "that kind of player" or "wasn't trying to hurt him".

[Sascha]

So, two wrongs do make a right. Got it!

I could care less either way, just figure being a man and confronting your opposition is the better way to go. No matter how fierce Suh's plays against Delhomme and Dalton have looked, he has had no intentions on putting anyone out of the game intentionally. If he did, with his size, strength and power, that would have already happened.

[Blackmallard]

No matter how fierce Suh's plays against Delhomme and Dalton have looked, he has had no intentions on putting anyone out of the game intentionally. If he did, with his size, strength and power, that would have already happened.

And this is exactly what they'll say if/when someone takes out his knee.

[Sascha]

And this is exactly what they'll say if/when someone takes out his knee.

Really? After an intentional chop? Gotcha!

[Blackmallard]

Really? After an intentional chop? Gotcha!

Its what always happens. People watched him pick Jake Delhomme up after he was tackled and slam him down again and said Suh was "just playing hard" and "didn't realize he was down". Fans will excuse anything when its one of "their guys" doing it.

[Sascha]

Its what always happens. People watched him pick Jake Delhomme up after he was tackled and slam him down again and said Suh was "just playing hard" and "didn't realize he was down". Fans will excuse anything when its one of "their guys" doing it.

Actually, "down" was never an argument I used in that play, or should have been used. My only argument in that play that can certainly sound like an excuse was whether or not Suh knew that Delhomme no longer had the ball in possession. With ball in hand, Suh should do what he can to tackle Delhomme. Sure, it was vicious, and he tossed Jake like a rag doll, but it wasn't anything more than vicious. It wasn't illegal, or dirty.


And it's not a case of "my guy" either. I'm just not very quick to label anyone a dirty player. In fact I can only think of a couple of examples from the last 25 years or so, and even those I'm on the fence about. I don't think Suh is a dirty player. I don't think James Harrison or Rodney Harrison are dirty players. I just don't see it. Are there times when they make questionable plays? Sure, but truthfully that could be said about every player, and usually only becomes an issue when that player is as good as Suh, or the Harrison's.

Here's who I can come up with as far as being, at least somewhat, dirty. John Lynch, after a series of his signature hard hits were helmet to helmet, and most looking like the helmet contact was avoidable, could be considered one. Another, but for one particular play only, was Brandon Meriweather. Fine Harrison all you want, but to me the worst, and dirtiest, play I've seen in years was Meriweather leaping up into Todd Heap's head. Roy Williams could be another, since he made the term "horse-collar tackle" a household term. Bill Romanowski was as dirty as they come between plays, not sure about during them. And the only other example I have is the blocking scheme used all this years by the Denver Broncos. I felt that was cheap and dirty, to a point.


I just don't see dirty, whether it's Suh or anyone else.

[Blackmallard]

I don't think Suh is a dirty player.

It's only referenced as a dirty play because Suh is the one trying to make the tackle.
You see it now?

Its pretty obvious that the Falcons weren't lying when they said Suh kicked Ryan while he was on the ground.

[Thedeprivedwriter]

You see it now?

Its pretty obvious that the Falcons weren't lying when they said Suh kicked Ryan while he was on the ground.

Still remains to be seen whether or not he did. Truthfully if you go back to that play, Suh wasn't even around Ryan when he went down...so how could he kick him?

Also, Suh was taken down on the play (from today) they were both jostling and then when Suh got up he kicked him. But it wasn't as if he drew his leg behind him and kicked him with all of his weight and power. I understand the penalty, but I don't understand kicking him out of the game.

[Sascha]

You see it now?

Its pretty obvious that the Falcons weren't lying when they said Suh kicked Ryan while he was on the ground.

Short answer, nope.


Long answer, ah forget it!