Winslow agrees to contract extension

[ThomasTomasz]

TAMPA, Fla. (AP)—Kellen Winslow and the Tampa Bay Buccaneers agreed Monday to a six-year, $36.1 million contract extension that will make the one-time Pro Bowl selection the highest-paid tight end in NFL history.

Agent Drew Rosenhaus said the deal includes $20.1 million guaranteed, a record for a tight end. With incentives, it could be worth up to $42.1 million.

Contract talks began soon after the Feb. 27 trade that sent Winslow, who participated in the Bucs’ voluntary minicamp last week, to Tampa Bay from Cleveland in exchange for a second-round pick in this year’s draft and a fifth-rounder in 2010.

Bucs' Winslow agrees to contract extension - NFL - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-buccaneers-winslow&prov=ap&type=lgns)

[Weston M]

Goodness that's a lot of money for a tight end. Winslow's gonna have to have a Tony Gonzalez-type impact in order to live up to that type of jack.

weston

[Hawkeye]

I agree with Weston. Winslow is the 6th best TE in the league. When he starts producing like the five guys ahead of him, then he can deserve an extension.

1-Gonzalez
2-Gates
3-Witten
4-Cooley
5-Daniels
6-Winslow

[Tronix]

Not only that what has he done to deserve any kind of raise/extension? He hasn't even participated in any kind of practices yet..Now granted it was through no fault of his own, for the most part, his previous numbers don't command that kind of jack, and most importantly, there are about 4 or 5 guys on the Bucs roster, that have been promised new contracts, and are more deserving...this makes little to no sense to me. And Coach Morris better hope this pans out, or the fans will turn on him. I will give him his chance to prove me wrong, but i got to question this one.

[Texecutioner]

I agree with Weston. Winslow is the 6th best TE in the league. When he starts producing like the five guys ahead of him, then he can deserve an extension.

1-Gonzalez
2-Gates
3-Witten
4-Cooley
5-Daniels
6-Winslow

Winslow is just as good as any TE in the passing game. But he doesn't block much so he is pretty much a one dimensional TE that they could just as easily move to the slot as a WR.

This was way to much guaranteed money to give to a guy with those types of injury issues from his past. Really bad decision on their part if you ask me especially when they don't have a proven QB to et him the ball a lot.

[jjflr]

there were a lot of bucs fans that thought the Bucs management wouldn't sign him to an extension until next year. I've believed all along that when the Bucs gave up what they did to acquire Winslow, they had no option but to sign him long-term. They couldn't give up what they gave up for Winslow and NOT sign him long-term.

The team made their decision to sign him long-term for a LOT of money BEFORE the trade became official. Otherwise, they wouldn't have given up that much for him.

[Hawkeye]

The team made their decision to sign him long-term for a LOT of money BEFORE the trade became official. Otherwise, they wouldn't have given up that much for him.

Agreed. We're just saying that he has to go out and live up to it on the field.

[StevenSD]

This will just make it harder to sign Gates for the Chargers...salaries are getting out of hand

[Texecutioner]

This will just make it harder to sign Gates for the Chargers...salaries are getting out of hand

Yep and it will make it harder for the Texans to sign Daniels even though he isn't quite as good as Gates. Hopefully it doesn't set any bar though because paying that much money for a TE is just to much.

[Parrish]

I thought that when a player gets traded for, an extension is usually expected?

[jjflr]

Agreed. We're just saying that he has to go out and live up to it on the field.


he doesn't have to do anything. he got $20 million guaranteed ............. ;)

this WAS his big contract. whatever he produces from here will show if he's really a 'soldier' or not ................. :D

[Sascha]

there were a lot of bucs fans that thought the Bucs management wouldn't sign him to an extension until next year. I've believed all along that when the Bucs gave up what they did to acquire Winslow, they had no option but to sign him long-term. They couldn't give up what they gave up for Winslow and NOT sign him long-term.

The team made their decision to sign him long-term for a LOT of money BEFORE the trade became official. Otherwise, they wouldn't have given up that much for him.

Given up that much? What are you talking about? A 2nd round pick? A 5th rounder next year? That's what you consider "Given up that much for him"? :huh:


I agree with Weston. Winslow is the 6th best TE in the league. When he starts producing like the five guys ahead of him, then he can deserve an extension.

1-Gonzalez
2-Gates
3-Witten
4-Cooley
5-Daniels
6-Winslow

Since getting healthy three years ago, Winslow has been the third best TE in the game, not the 7th best.



I thought that when a player gets traded for, an extension is usually expected?

Yeah, not understanding the uproar either.

Also, I don't 20 mill guaranteed over six years is that much. A little over 3 mill a season for a top TE, with the cap where it is, and the room the Bucs have?



Now, let's get Anquan.

[Hawkeye]

Since getting healthy three years ago, Winslow has been the third best TE in the game, not the 7th best.


Oh really, so which of the guys in my top three do you exclude then? I can guarantee that he isn't even close to being better than any of those guys. I don't think he has been better than Cooley who has been a model of consistency since his second year. You MIGHT make an argument against Daniels being better.

[MarvinMartian]

^And I'll go so far as to say he Winslow is maybe in the Top 5, but definately not top 3.

Gates, Gonzo, and Witten are 3 of the best recieving TE's in the game today, and I'll go a step farther and say Witten may be the best all around TE out of everyone since he's, IMO, a better blocker than Gates or Gonzo, and enough so to offset how much better at recieving Gates and Gonzo are than him.


But yeah...I don't see how Winslow makes it into the "Top 3 TE's" over the last 3-4 years...and he won't till Gonzo retires, lol.

Wow Ruuudi, I can't believe you'd say Winslow is better than Gonzo, Gates, or Witten...and since Witten is 3rd on Hawkeye's list, I'm assuming you think he's better than Witten, which is ridiculous. Even if he's more of a recieving threat than Witten, and that's debatable because Witten has been the #1 option for Romo, even with TO on the team, and there's no way Winslow is in the same league as Witten as a blocker IMO.

[Hawkeye]

I think Witten is every bit as good a receiver as Gates and Gonzo.

[MarvinMartian]

^I agree...but some people will have Witten lower when talking top Fantasy TE's(which only take into account his recieiving ability)...

but as I said, I'll also take Witten over both of them because he's a better blocker as well...at least in my book.

[BAKAJ]

Winslow might not be a good blocking TE , but he is one of the best receiving TEs in the nfl... In 2007 he had over 1000 yards and 2006 he had almost 900 yards... Those receving numbers are what the top Te's are putting up... 2008 he missed 6 games and still put up almost 500 yards and 3 tds...

Witten 2007 - 1145 yards 7 tds... best season as pro...
2006 754 yards 1 td...

Gates 2007 - 984 yards 9 tds
2008 924 yards 9 tds...

Tony G
2007 1172 yards 5 tds
2006 900 yards 5 tds...

Winslow 2007 1106 yards 5 tds
2006 875 yards 3 tds...

All these numbers are very similar so I dont know how you rank winslow at number 7!

[Texecutioner]

^I agree...but some people will have Witten lower when talking top Fantasy TE's(which only take into account his recieiving ability)...

but as I said, I'll also take Witten over both of them because he's a better blocker as well...at least in my book.

Right now at this moment Witten is the best TE in the NFL. He blocks extremely well, catches balls about as good as anyone, and is a really good team guy.I'd take Witten over any TE in the NFL.

[BAKAJ]

Witten aint better then tony G... 96 rec 1058 yards 10 tds last season... Now lets see how Witten does while being the main target and noone to take pressure of him... When TO was there he was the main target and dont say he wasent bc the man caught I think 38 tds in the last seasons there...

Also T G is the most consistant TE he does it every year!

[MarvinMartian]

Witten aint better then tony G... 96 rec 1058 yards 10 tds last season... Now lets see how Witten does while being the main target and noone to take pressure of him... When TO was there he was the main target and dont say he wasent bc the man caught I think 38 tds in the last seasons there...

Also T G is the most consistant TE he does it every year!


What you fail to realize is that when myself, or Texacutioner, are calling Witten the best TE in the league it's because of his all around skills...not just because of his recieiving stats, which it seems some people are getting caught up in.


Also, when looking at Gonzo, and even Gates, look at the other recieving options on those teams over the years, and they aren't impressive...the Cowboys haven't just had TO while Witten was there, but also Joey Galloway, Terry Glenn, Antonio Bryant(who was good while a Cowboy, and showing it again in Tampa)and even Keyshawn Johnson during his tenure as the Cowboys TE as well...his stats are bound to suffer some due to the ball being split between all those guys over the years.

Gates and Gonzo might be better recieving weapons, and that's debatable, but Witten is the best blocker out of the elite level TE's in the NFL.

Winslow is in the discussion as a recieving weapon/threat...but I havne't seen him commit to becoming a good blocker like I have Witten and even Gonzolas over the years has.

[Hawkeye]

2008 he missed 6 games and still put up almost 500 yards and 3 tds...

Which would put him on pace for 69 catches for 685 yards and 5 TDs over 16 games. You’re not making your case with that.


All these numbers are very similar so I dont know how you rank winslow at number 7!

First of all, I had him ranked 6th……not 7th. Look at the list. Second of all, One 1100 yard season and another over 800 doesn’t make him elite. Witten has an 1100 yard season and two over 900 and two over 750. Gates has an 1100, three 900s and a 700. Gonzo has four seasons over 1000, four over 900 and so on. Cooley has three over 700 and an 800 and has been the model of consistency. Daniels doesn’t have the numbers that the other ones do, but a 700 and an 800 isn’t bad when you consider he has only missed two games in three years. How many games has Winslow missed in four seasons? Twenty. When Winslow can stay healthy and continue to put up good numbers, then he can join the elite.

[Sascha]

I've said that since he became healthy, over the last three seasons, he's been the 3rd best TE, and at worst the 4th.

He's played 42 games, started 40. The 42 is 6 less than Gates, 5 less than Gonzo and Witten, and 4 less than Daniels.

Despite playing less games, he's had more receptions than Gates, and has numbers very comparable to Witten's total for 5 more games.

2409 yards to 2851.
206 receptions to 241.
11 TD's to 12.

So, in the games he missed last year with a staph infection, if he had played 5 games, caught 35 passes for 442 yards and 1 TD, he would have matched Witten's output.

Witten is a great all-around TE, and that does make him valuable, but he's not better than Gates (26TD's) or Gonzales (268/3130/20). Call him better than Winslow and I won't argue, but the case for the opposite can also be made.

Meanwhile, you mentioned Cooley and Daniels. Cooley has played all 48 games and has less receptions and yards than Winslow, though he does have 15 TD's. Daniels being in the discussion (167/1982/10 in 46 games) is just laughable, and I like the man. Then again, I wouldn't put Daniels ahead of guys like Heath Miller and Dallas Clark either.

[Sascha]

Which would put him on pace for 69 catches for 685 yards and 5 TDs over 16 games. You’re not making your case with that.



First of all, I had him ranked 6th……not 7th. Look at the list. Second of all, One 1100 yard season and another over 800 doesn’t make him elite. Witten has an 1100 yard season and two over 900 and two over 750. Gates has an 1100, three 900s and a 700. Gonzo has four seasons over 1000, four over 900 and so on. Cooley has three over 700 and an 800 and has been the model of consistency. Daniels doesn’t have the numbers that the other ones do, but a 700 and an 800 isn’t bad when you consider he has only missed two games in three years. How many games has Winslow missed in four seasons? Twenty. When Winslow can stay healthy and continue to put up good numbers, then he can join the elite.

Considering, those are his only two seasons, I'd say that's pretty good. You got to pick and choose the good seasons for the other guys.

[Texecutioner]

Which would put him on pace for 69 catches for 685 yards and 5 TDs over 16 games. You’re not making your case with that.



First of all, I had him ranked 6th……not 7th. Look at the list. Second of all, One 1100 yard season and another over 800 doesn’t make him elite. Witten has an 1100 yard season and two over 900 and two over 750. Gates has an 1100, three 900s and a 700. Gonzo has four seasons over 1000, four over 900 and so on. Cooley has three over 700 and an 800 and has been the model of consistency. Daniels doesn’t have the numbers that the other ones do, but a 700 and an 800 isn’t bad when you consider he has only missed two games in three years. How many games has Winslow missed in four seasons? Twenty. When Winslow can stay healthy and continue to put up good numbers, then he can join the elite.

Winslow is elite Hawkeye and probably the most talented in the passing game, but I agree when you consider his injury concerns and some of the complaining he likes to do it doesn't help his case. I've always been a Winslow fan and all , but when you consider that he doesn't block either he isn't quite as good as Witten or Gates or Gonzales either but his value should be higher than Gonzo since Gonzo is on the verge of retiring.

Right now Witten is the bench mark TE that is the best in the NFL.

This was a bad contract and is bad for the league period. Hopefully other teams don't follow into doing this when the agents of the other top TE's are negotiating a new contract. I just hope that GM's around the league don't fall for these tactics and let this create a huge market for free agent TE's.

[Hawkeye]

Considering, those are his only two seasons, I'd say that's pretty good. You got to pick and choose the good seasons for the other guys.

I didn't pick and choose......I was responding to Bakaj who was cherry-picking seasons. My point is that Winslow hasn't been around long enough or been consistent enough to be considered elite yet. Winslow was not on pace to catch Witten last year. He wasn't even on pace to catch Daniels. I rather have Daniels healthy for 16 games than Winslow for 10. He's missed 20 of 64 games man.



Then again, I wouldn't put Daniels ahead of guys like Heath Miller and Dallas Clark either.

Miller? Why because he's got 21 TDs? He still isn't as productive (168/1932/21) over four seasons as Daniels has been in three (167/1982/10).
Aside of TDs, Daniels has been more productive than Clark too. Not to take away TDs because they are a big part of it, but we don't know what Houston likes to do in the red zone.

[Texecutioner]

I didn't pick and choose......I was responding to Bakaj who was cherry-picking seasons. My point is that Winslow hasn't been around long enough or been consistent enough to be considered elite yet. Winslow was not on pace to catch Witten last year. He wasn't even on pace to catch Daniels. I rather have Daniels healthy for 16 games than Winslow for 10. He's missed 20 of 64 games man.




Miller? Why because he's got 21 TDs? He still isn't as productive (168/1932/21) over four seasons as Daniels has been in three (167/1982/10).
Aside of TDs, Daniels has been more productive than Clark too. Not to take away TDs because they are a big part of it, but we don't know what Houston likes to do in the red zone.

Also consider this that in Daniels first season he had David Freaking Carr and Kubiak was like the most conservative coach in the entire league.

The last two season Daniels has had to have Schaub and Sage going in and out of the starting line up due to injuries of Schuab and his numbers keep getting better and better despite all of that. Daniels hasn't come close to his ceiling of potential just yet at all.

[BAKAJ]

You fail to realize that last season Winslow was hurt so his numbers arent exactley elite... and putting up almost 500 yads and 3 tds and missing 6 games is pretty dam good for a TE !

Also Dosent a great WR open up the lanes for your TE to work under-neath... Because Im sure thats what TO did... Witten is great but TO had some effect on that how he was covered... Im just curious to see how he does this season!

[jjflr]

Given up that much? What are you talking about? A 2nd round pick? A 5th rounder next year? That's what you consider "Given up that much for him"? :huh:





fair point r5d3, however, a mid-round 2nd and mid-round 5th on the draft value chart equals a high 2nd round pick. Most teams expect a player they draft with a high 2nd round pick to be with their team for many years, right?

THAT is basically my point. Any player that a team is going to give up a first day pick for, they expect that player to be with them for a while (long-term).

[Sascha]

Also consider this that in Daniels first season he had David Freaking Carr and Kubiak was like the most conservative coach in the entire league.

The last two season Daniels has had to have Schaub and Sage going in and out of the starting line up due to injuries of Schuab and his numbers keep getting better and better despite all of that. Daniels hasn't come close to his ceiling of potential just yet at all.

The "look who's throwing" argument is never really a good one. I mean, look at the crap Gonzales has had throwing to him. Witten had some meager QB play too for a while, and so has Cooley, not to mention Winslow.


fair point r5d3, however, a mid-round 2nd and mid-round 5th on the draft value chart equals a high 2nd round pick. Most teams expect a player they draft with a high 2nd round pick to be with their team for many years, right?

THAT is basically my point. Any player that a team is going to give up a first day pick for, they expect that player to be with them for a while (long-term).

Well, first off, don't you think Winslow has the talent that warrants a high 2nd round pick?

And secondly, a six year contract kinda assures the "with the team for many years" part, right?

Remember, he's a 5 year vet, who's really only played three years, and he's only 25.

There is nothing about trading for, and subsequently signing long-term, Winslow that I don't like.

[Texecutioner]

The "look who's throwing" argument is never really a good one. I mean, look at the crap Gonzales has had throwing to him. Witten had some meager QB play too for a while, and so has Cooley, not to mention Winslow.

What was all this for? I haven't even made any comparison of Daniels to Winslow like Hawkeye has. I was just mentioning something about Daniels to him since he seemed to be quite fond of Daniels.

But since you wanted to go there, Daniels has put up very sweet numbers since he came into the league. Let's see David Carr his first season (HORRIBLE) and then a Sage and Schaub mix up combination (Average) and then yet another Sage schaub mix up combination again the next season (good) due to injury. And yet he posted 352, 768, and 862 yards all back to back to back in his first 3 seasons under those conditions. He also blocks very very well.

Now I don't like the "look who's throwing argument" either and I hear that garbage all the time with under performing WR's in here especially, so don't even think I would use that as some sort of poor poor excuse. I wouldn't have to though for Daniels because his numbers are very nice regardless and will most likely continue to get better. In his situation he has done very well in his volatile QB situation.

Now Winslow has a higher ceiling than Daniels for sure IN THE PASSING GAME, but how much higher of a ceiling? What 100 yards 200 yards? Not with TD's he hasn't really been and that could go either way really. And Winslow doesn't block either so that certainly doesn't make things better. And Owen Daniels doesn't have the staph infections, the constant battles with management, the fines, and all of the other drama that seems to surround Winslow somehow. So you can take your pick, but a lot of people would rather have a guy like Daniels. To me Winslow has more potential than any TE in the league receiving wise, but again he doesn't block so that taints his value.

[Sascha]

What was all this for? I haven't even made any comparison of Daniels to Winslow like Hawkeye has. I was just mentioning something about Daniels to him since he seemed to be quite fond of Daniels.

But since you wanted to go there, Daniels has put up very sweet numbers since he came into the league. Let's see David Carr his first season (HORRIBLE) and then a Sage and Schaub mix up combination (Average) and then yet another Sage schaub mix up combination again the next season (good) due to injury. And yet he posted 352, 768, and 862 yards all back to back to back in his first 3 seasons under those conditions. He also blocks very very well.

Now I don't like the "look who's throwing argument" either and I hear that garbage all the time with under performing WR's in here especially, so don't even think I would use that as some sort of poor poor excuse. I wouldn't have to though for Daniels because his numbers are very nice regardless and will most likely continue to get better. In his situation he has done very well in his volatile QB situation.

Now Winslow has a higher ceiling than Daniels for sure IN THE PASSING GAME, but how much higher of a ceiling? What 100 yards 200 yards? Not with TD's he hasn't really been and that could go either way really. And Winslow doesn't block either so that certainly doesn't make things better. And Owen Daniels doesn't have the staph infections, the constant battles with management, the fines, and all of the other drama that seems to surround Winslow somehow. So you can take your pick, but a lot of people would rather have a guy like Daniels. To me Winslow has more potential than any TE in the league receiving wise, but again he doesn't block so that taints his value.


No need to get defensive, I wasn't really taking a stab at you, or at Daniels, who I agree is a very functional TE. It's just a peeve of mine to hear things like "Well look who he had to play with". We know what Calvin Johnson had to work with, look at his numbers. Antonio Gates had an MVP candidate throwing his balls, why the meager statistics?


So, yeah, just a pet peeve is all.

Thank you for defending KWII, please continue to do so. ;)

[jjflr]

Well, first off, don't you think Winslow has the talent that warrants a high 2nd round pick? yes.

And secondly, a six year contract kinda assures the "with the team for many years" part, right? yes.

---- r5d3, I think you're having so many different conversations in this thread, they're starting to merge together. I am and have always been a big KWII fan. When he is on the field, he is a game-changer.

My point in chiming into this thread was that there were many Bucs fans that I talked to after the trade that insisted that the Bucs would wait to sign him long-term until after he played with them at least a year. I disagreed with that opinion from the start because the Bucs wouldn't have given up the draft picks if they didn't feel he was going to be with them for a long time. I think we're on the same page here.

[Texecutioner]

No need to get defensive, I wasn't really taking a stab at you, or at Daniels, who I agree is a very functional TE. It's just a peeve of mine to hear things like "Well look who he had to play with". We know what Calvin Johnson had to work with, look at his numbers. Antonio Gates had an MVP candidate throwing his balls, why the meager statistics?


So, yeah, just a pet peeve is all.

Thank you for defending KWII, please continue to do so. ;)

I wasn't getting defensive Rudi, sometimes I just come off that way. ;)

I too, hate that argument being made and I hear it here at PSH more than any other place. Hell, I've been having to hear that argument in the Cowboys threads with ROy Williams as we speak and just like your previous Calvin Johnson example you just made it's also an example as to why Roy Williams doesn't get an excuse.

But for the record, I do remember you trying to use that for Jerry Porter a while back. ;)

Winslow is a great pass catching TE for sure and will help the Bucs out a lot. He is pretty much as good of a possession WR as anyone in the league really. They might be better off just making him a #3 WR in the slot actually since he doesn't like to block. That way they could still get another TE that can actually block and catch passes as well and still have Winslow out there making plays in the slot. If I were an offensive coach I would move Winslow all over the field and make the defense chase him around at the line of scrimmage.

[GlasstheGrey]

Given winslow's history 20m upfront was WAY too much. He's now the higest paid TE in the NFL. and given the fact he's spent most of his Career in some form of unavailable I don't see the Justification for throwing that much Quan his way. The Picks were good, Winslow (now that he's been mostly healthy) is starting to match his pre-draft hype with some performance. but he still had 2 years left on his deal, you didn't HAVE to give him that money. let him play for a year on this current contract and see if he continues to improve, if he does then lock him up long term.

This was really a dumb move by the bucs.

[Sascha]

I think a dumb move would have been to not re-up him ASAP, let him stew over still working on his old contract, light up the league, and then pull a disappearing act out of town the next year.