Merrill Hoge vs. Vince Young

[Tiki Tiger]

this is a classic!!! hahahahah

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDahCWm0oVg

[Crunked]

Oh that is well done, very well done kudos to the artist very funny indeed

[Jwalk]

Gave me a chuckle

[The Gopher]

Could Hoge and EaglePhil be one in the same?


More investigations to come.

[Youngstown Colt]

Hahaha, that is truely great. You could say Merrils analysis of Vince was "boarderline pathetic"

[GBneedsDCnOC]

:lol2: :rofl: OMG, that is hilarious.....

[|(evin|(olb|(ritik]

Hahaha, that is truely great. You could say Merrils analysis of Vince was "boarderline pathetic"

Or you could say that this video is borderline ridiculous.

Vince has had 2 good games against 2 VERY bad defenses, and in every other game this season he has looked atrocious. The Giants D aint normally that bad but with how banged up they were in that Titans game, yeah they were horrible.

So after 2 good games and 7 bad ones suddenly Vince has proven Merril or any of the other doubters wrong?

Sorry, but its going to take more than a few cherry picked highlights to prove that.

[Youngstown Colt]

Sorry, but I didn't care for the guy coming out of college, and he's completely changed my mind. He's outrunning the people he wasn't supposed to be able to outrun. He's leading his team to victories over good teams.

He's just good.

[D BLOCK]

Or you could say that this video is borderline ridiculous.

Vince has had 2 good games against 2 VERY bad defenses, and in every other game this season he has looked atrocious. The Giants D aint normally that bad but with how banged up they were in that Titans game, yeah they were horrible.

So after 2 good games and 7 bad ones suddenly Vince has proven Merril or any of the other doubters wrong?

Sorry, but its going to take more than a few cherry picked highlights to prove that.

Damn, you sound like a hater.

[Ben Stiller]

Or you could say that this video is borderline ridiculous.

Vince has had 2 good games against 2 VERY bad defenses, and in every other game this season he has looked atrocious. The Giants D aint normally that bad but with how banged up they were in that Titans game, yeah they were horrible.

So after 2 good games and 7 bad ones suddenly Vince has proven Merril or any of the other doubters wrong?

Sorry, but its going to take more than a few cherry picked highlights to prove that.

Got to agree. It would be just as easy to make a video of Youngs bad plays that makes Hoges analysis look correct.

[Tennessee_Stud]

Lol guys, Colts have a top 10 pass def. YOung still managed to put up 200 passing and two tds. Plus, the guy isnt cherry picking Vince's running. HE really is juking out, going through and running around top level NFL linebackers.

[dbuilder]

Or you could say that this video is borderline ridiculous.

Vince has had 2 good games against 2 VERY bad defenses, and in every other game this season he has looked atrocious. The Giants D aint normally that bad but with how banged up they were in that Titans game, yeah they were horrible.

So after 2 good games and 7 bad ones suddenly Vince has proven Merril or any of the other doubters wrong?

Sorry, but its going to take more than a few cherry picked highlights to prove that.


Well I guess you can add another to the "cherry picked highlight reel."

This next one won't be hard to find.

[Tennessee_Stud]

You could make a highlight reel out of the Texans game today. Except for that one stupid int, Vince played real good.

[Tiki Tiger]

hahaha, wow are you serious...you're pullin out the bad defenses card? thats used every week....haha

just face it, Vince is as clutch as it comes, and whether or not hes a stat guy..the only sta that matters is the W he puts up week after week...i cant believe you guys are saying that!

[|(evin|(olb|(ritik]

hahaha, wow are you serious...you're pullin out the bad defenses card? thats used every week....haha

just face it, Vince is as clutch as it comes, and whether or not hes a stat guy..the only sta that matters is the W he puts up week after week...i cant believe you guys are saying that!

hahaha, wow are you serious...you're pullin out the hes a winner card? Do you know how many times ive heard that used....haha

Kordell Stewart
Michael Vick

shall I go on? They were "winners" too who didnt necessarily put up the best stats and were prone to mistakes too when it came to passing the football. But against inferior competition they did a nice job. Oh, and they each had that thing that no one could describe that made them unstoppable, IT. Sounds awefully familiar. :rolleyes:

This week against Jacksonvilles defense we will see just how far Vince has come. The last time they faced eachother Vince looked terrible, he threw 3 INT's and the Titans got demolished 37-7. He didnt look like a "winner" that day.

[dbuilder]

hahaha, wow are you serious...you're pullin out the hes a winner card? Do you know how many times ive heard that used....haha

Kordell Stewart
Michael Vick

shall I go on? They were "winners" too who didnt necessarily put up the best stats and were prone to mistakes too when it came to passing the football. But against inferior competition they did a nice job. Oh, and they each had that thing that no one could describe that made them unstoppable, IT. Sounds awefully familiar. :rolleyes:

This week against Jacksonvilles defense we will see just how far Vince has come. The last time they faced eachother Vince looked terrible, he threw 3 INT's and the Titans got demolished 37-7. He didnt look like a "winner" that day.


LOL Wow. So lets go tell Tom Brady that his stats when he won his three super bowl weren't of the caliber of Peyton Manning and he got lucky and should not have won them because Manning's numbers were better. Save the hate for the suckers that don't understand that Football is the ultimate team sport. I can't believe you brought up Kordell Stewart, who is know for choking in the clutch. Vince Young under pressure is the polar opposite of Kordell Stewart, which is evident in his past 3 games. Please help me out here. Vince has done nothing but improve week after week and continued to prove you wrong week after week. WHy do you hate on him so much? Kordell Stewart? LOL

[Tennessee_Stud]

Eagle Phil is just a little Leinart fanboy. Dont take anything he says seriously.

[|(evin|(olb|(ritik]

Eagle Phil is just a little Leinart fanboy. Dont take anything he says seriously.

Wow, now theres a mature comment. I guess we should all aspire to be as great at Tennessee_Stud here and his intuitive wisdom. :rolleyes:

[|(evin|(olb|(ritik]

LOL Wow. So lets go tell Tom Brady that his stats when he won his three super bowl weren't of the caliber of Peyton Manning and he got lucky and should not have won them because Manning's numbers were better. Save the hate for the suckers that don't understand that Football is the ultimate team sport. I can't believe you brought up Kordell Stewart, who is know for choking in the clutch. Vince Young under pressure is the polar opposite of Kordell Stewart, which is evident in his past 3 games. Please help me out here. Vince has done nothing but improve week after week and continued to prove you wrong week after week. WHy do you hate on him so much? Kordell Stewart? LOL

Could you actually contradict yourself anymore in this comment? First you throw out the Tom Brady card basically crediting him and his ability to "win" for the victories that his team accomplished in those superbowls. Then you go on and talk about how football is the ultimate team sport. So what side of the argument are you on here? Do players who dont perform up to expectation get credited for team accomplishments or not?

And yes, Peyton Manning is a better QB than Tom Brady. Unfortunately for him he hasnt been surrounded by a team that is as good as Toms has been. Despite being a SB caliber QB, Peyton hasnt played on a SB caliber team. See, I dont believe in the "hes a winner" argument. I believe in what I see. Kordell was described as a "winner" too when he came into the league. So was Michael Vick.

THen you make ignorant comments about how hes continued to improve week after week and prove me wrong week after week. Hes had 3 good games out of the 10 hes started this season. I do find it to be more than coincidental that those 3 games also came against the 3 worst defenses hes faced all year.

As I stated earlier, we'll find out just how much hes improved (if hes improved at all) this week when they face the Jaguars. Last time he faced the Jags, Vince looked like a junior high school kid playing the varsity.

[dbuilder]

Could you actually contradict yourself anymore in this comment? First you throw out the Tom Brady card basically crediting him and his ability to "win" for the victories that his team accomplished in those superbowls. Then you go on and talk about how football is the ultimate team sport. So what side of the argument are you on here? Do players who dont perform up to expectation get credited for team accomplishments or not?

And yes, Peyton Manning is a better QB than Tom Brady. Unfortunately for him he hasnt been surrounded by a team that is as good as Toms has been. Despite being a SB caliber QB, Peyton hasnt played on a SB caliber team. See, I dont believe in the "hes a winner" argument. I believe in what I see. Kordell was described as a "winner" too when he came into the league. So was Michael Vick.

THen you make ignorant comments about how hes continued to improve week after week and prove me wrong week after week. Hes had 3 good games out of the 10 hes started this season. I do find it to be more than coincidental that those 3 games also came against the 3 worst defenses hes faced all year.

As I stated earlier, we'll find out just how much hes improved (if hes improved at all) this week when they face the Jaguars. Last time he faced the Jags, Vince looked like a junior high school kid playing the varsity.

Huh? Contradict myself? A little hot under the collar there partner? Have you been watching the games? I doubt it. I know you will say you have cuz you have the Network and blah, blah, blah. But I don't believe you have if you are saying VY hasn't improved.. Stop hate'n. Junior High? You haven't learned yet. You continue to stick your rep on the line for someone you don't want to do well. Stop hate'n. I am the one being ignorant? Wake up man. No one is the buying what you are selling. Not me, not the members on the this board, not the media, not the players in the NFL and definitly not VY.

[dbuilder]

Could you actually contradict yourself anymore in this comment? First you throw out the Tom Brady card basically crediting him and his ability to "win" for the victories that his team accomplished in those superbowls. Then you go on and talk about how football is the ultimate team sport. So what side of the argument are you on here? Do players who dont perform up to expectation get credited for team accomplishments or not?

And yes, Peyton Manning is a better QB than Tom Brady. Unfortunately for him he hasnt been surrounded by a team that is as good as Toms has been. Despite being a SB caliber QB, Peyton hasnt played on a SB caliber team. See, I dont believe in the "hes a winner" argument. I believe in what I see. Kordell was described as a "winner" too when he came into the league. So was Michael Vick.

THen you make ignorant comments about how hes continued to improve week after week and prove me wrong week after week. Hes had 3 good games out of the 10 hes started this season. I do find it to be more than coincidental that those 3 games also came against the 3 worst defenses hes faced all year.

As I stated earlier, we'll find out just how much hes improved (if hes improved at all) this week when they face the Jaguars. Last time he faced the Jags, Vince looked like a junior high school kid playing the varsity.


VY's team was a field goal away from defeating the Baltimore Ravens, which host one of the top 3 defenses in the league! Hi Yah

[|(evin|(olb|(ritik]

Huh? Contradict myself? A little hot under the collar there partner? Have you been watching the games? I doubt it. I know you will say you have cuz you have the Network and blah, blah, blah. But I don't believe you have if you are saying VY hasn't improved.. Stop hate'n. Junior High? You haven't learned yet. You continue to stick your rep on the line for someone you don't want to do well. Stop hate'n. I am the one being ignorant? Wake up man. No one is the buying what you are selling. Not me, not the members on the this board, not the media, not the players in the NFL and definitly not VY.

You might not be buying what im selling but you sure keep coming back for more dont ya?

Make all of the ASSUMPTIONS you want about what I have or havent seen, I know what Ive seen and I have credited Vince for playing better in the past 3 games. Never once did I say he didnt play better. But that doesnt mean hes improved. It just means hes had 3 good games. I find it curious that those 3 games came against the 3 worst defenses hes faced all year.

3 out of 10. But hey, I guess 3 good games out of 10 is good enough for some people.

[|(evin|(olb|(ritik]

VY's team was a field goal away from defeating the Baltimore Ravens, which host one of the top 3 defenses in the league! Hi Yah

You are right, Vince Youngs "TEAM" (let me bold, italicize and underline that for you so you understand) was within a field goal of beating the Ravens. How many TD's did Vince throw for in that game? 0. The team played well DESPITE Vince not doing much at all.

And in the 2nd half, when the pressure was on, your boy who is supposed to be so "clutch," led his team to 0 points in the entire second half on their way to a loss. I guess he left that "winner" mentality at home that day right?

[dbuilder]

You might not be buying what im selling but you sure keep coming back for more dont ya?

Make all of the ASSUMPTIONS you want about what I have or havent seen, I know what Ive seen and I have credited Vince for playing better in the past 3 games. Never once did I say he didnt play better. But that doesnt mean hes improved. It just means hes had 3 good games. I find it curious that those 3 games came against the 3 worst defenses hes faced all year.

3 out of 10. But hey, I guess 3 good games out of 10 is good enough for some people.


coming back for more of what? VY has won two rookie of the week awards. He is being considered for rookie of the year. He has quarterbacked his team to victories in 5 of his last 6 games. People are questioning what could have been if he had started at the beginning of the year. He has pocket presence, he looks off safeties and is finding his receivers. He is flat out making plays when it counts. What film are you watching. I thought the definition of improving was consistantly getting better? I just want you to answer the question. Why do you not want to see VY do well? Or better yet why are you so critical of the Number 3 draft pick?

[Ben Stiller]

And yes, Peyton Manning is a better QB than Tom Brady. Unfortunately for him he hasnt been surrounded by a team that is as good as Toms has been. Despite being a SB caliber QB, Peyton hasnt played on a SB caliber team.

The Colts are stacked with offensive talent. Manning has been part of an absolutely amazing team. Far better than what Brady had most of his career.

[Blackmallard]

The Colts are stacked with offensive talent. Manning has been part of an absolutely amazing team. Far better than what Brady had most of his career.

I'm certain that he is not referring to the offensive talent on the Colts.

[YoHoChecko]

I don't want to alarm anyone, but we may be seconds away from the "Ultimate thread." The Vince Young debate joins head on with the Brady vs Manning debate... wow

ANyway, like Stiller said, it's easy to take a couple plays and make a highlight clip, and there are just as many bad ones. That being said, he has improved some lately and that OT run was awesome... but that being said, I still very much question his ability to lead a consistent passing attack against solid defenses, and if I were Travis Henry or even Pacman Jones, I'd be a little tired of the Vince Young media party for the work that I'd done

[|(evin|(olb|(ritik]

and if I were Travis Henry or even Pacman Jones, I'd be a little tired of the Vince Young media party for the work that I'd done

Aint that the truth!

[OSU8085]

I agree with EaglePhil here, I think Vince Young has played better than I thought but that doesn't make him a pro-bowler and really what has he hdone? Won a few games sure but why don't wait for him to lead them to the playoffs before we crown him a top 5 qb in the league

I found that movie funny but not that accurate

[Tiki Tiger]

hahaha, wow are you serious...you're pullin out the hes a winner card? Do you know how many times ive heard that used....haha

Kordell Stewart
Michael Vick

shall I go on? They were "winners" too who didnt necessarily put up the best stats and were prone to mistakes too when it came to passing the football. But against inferior competition they did a nice job. Oh, and they each had that thing that no one could describe that made them unstoppable, IT. Sounds awefully familiar. :rolleyes:

This week against Jacksonvilles defense we will see just how far Vince has come. The last time they faced eachother Vince looked terrible, he threw 3 INT's and the Titans got demolished 37-7. He didnt look like a "winner" that day.

It's funny how you say that Vince hasnt played anyone, but then you choose the Jags as an example of facing a good team when just a second ago you pretty much call them the most overrated team in the league...And for the record Vince Young won his last 4 games with a 5/3 td/interception ratio..and 3 of them are playoff contenders/locks. And yes the past 4 games were when he was well adjusted to the NFL, and making people look like fools (Kiwanuka..)

[|(evin|(olb|(ritik]

It's funny how you say that Vince hasnt played anyone, but then you choose the Jags as an example of facing a good team when just a second ago you pretty much call them the most overrated team in the league...And for the record Vince Young won his last 4 games with a 5/3 td/interception ratio..and 3 of them are playoff contenders/locks. And yes the past 4 games were when he was well adjusted to the NFL, and making people look like fools (Kiwanuka..)

When did I say Vince hasnt played anyone? Did I say that? Could you point it out please.

Now, what you will find when you actually READ my posts rather than just generalizing what you THINK I said is that I said Vinces 3 best games have come against the 3 worst defenses hes played all year. And its true. He had a great game against an anemic Houston defense last week, he had a good game against a terrible Colts defense the week before that, and another good game against an injury devastated and pitiful Giants defense the week before that.

Every time hes faced a good defense this season, hes looked terrible including the first game against the Jags this season. So forgive me for not jumping on the VY bandwagon after a couple of good performances against some terrible defenses.

[Ben Stiller]

I'm certain that he is not referring to the offensive talent on the Colts.

So the Colts dont have enough total talent? I specifically pointed out the offensive talent because you need to look at the amount of points that stacked offense puts up when they are eliminated from the playoffs every year. Its also that offensive talent around him that allows him to put up those stats that cause so many to declare him the best.


making people look like fools (Kiwanuka..)

That has much more to do with Kiwanuka screwing up than a spectacular play by Young.

[dbuilder]

I don't want to alarm anyone, but we may be seconds away from the "Ultimate thread." The Vince Young debate joins head on with the Brady vs Manning debate... wow

ANyway, like Stiller said, it's easy to take a couple plays and make a highlight clip, and there are just as many bad ones. That being said, he has improved some lately and that OT run was awesome... but that being said, I still very much question his ability to lead a consistent passing attack against solid defenses, and if I were Travis Henry or even Pacman Jones, I'd be a little tired of the Vince Young media party for the work that I'd done


Well if you have paid any attention, both Travis Henry and Pacman Jones, give VY just as much praise as I have and the rest of the VY supporters. So we can deduct that if they were tired of the party they would not have attended.

The Brady vs Manning observation made me chuckle a bit. Especially coming from stat boy himself. I laugh but yet still don't know what your point is. Have we come to the point were we can't reference Brady or Manning with any other QB in any circumstance. I am going to go out on a limb here though. I am going to say this, Vince Young will soon be revered in the same light as the top QB's in this league. The VY Era is among us.

[Sascha]

You might not be buying what im selling but you sure keep coming back for more dont ya?

Make all of the ASSUMPTIONS you want about what I have or havent seen, I know what Ive seen and I have credited Vince for playing better in the past 3 games. Never once did I say he didnt play better. But that doesnt mean hes improved. It just means hes had 3 good games. I find it curious that those 3 games came against the 3 worst defenses hes faced all year.

3 out of 10. But hey, I guess 3 good games out of 10 is good enough for some people.

Well, to tell you the truth, yes. For a rookie signal-caller, on a bad team (they were 0-5), 3 good games out of 10 is quite good to me. Now, when he's a 10 year veteran and the Titans are SB contenders, then no, 3 good games out of 10 would not be acceptable.

At this stage of his career you have to assess his progress, which in my opinion has been immense. I was not a fan of his coming out of the draft, rating Cutler at the top of the draft, and Leinart ahead of Young, but he's proven me wrong.

He, and the rest of his team, started the season 0-5 and are now 6-7, how is that not good?

[BigBenCan7]

watch the Baltimore game..I love it when people who watch highlights comment on stuff they know nothing about.

He barely completed half of his passes with zero touchdowns and an interception.

Impressive.

[phantoms33]

When did I say Vince hasnt played anyone? Did I say that? Could you point it out please.

Now, what you will find when you actually READ my posts rather than just generalizing what you THINK I said is that I said Vinces 3 best games have come against the 3 worst defenses hes played all year. And its true. He had a great game against an anemic Houston defense last week, he had a good game against a terrible Colts defense the week before that, and another good game against an injury devastated and pitiful Giants defense the week before that.

Every time hes faced a good defense this season, hes looked terrible including the first game against the Jags this season. So forgive me for not jumping on the VY bandwagon after a couple of good performances against some terrible defenses.

Well VY has improved each game during the winning streak. The game this week against the Jaguars was a strange one. He was over 50% completion percentage and didn't have any picks. He didn't really have many opportunities and I give Jax a lot of credit for not letting him beat them with his legs. However, the Titans won the game. Vince himself would tell you that is all that matters.

Now as far as not playing well against good defenses, that can be said for a lot of quality veteran QB's as well. What did Brady do against the Dolphins?

Good defenses can shut any quarterback down, including pro bowl caliber qb's. So of course Vince may not do as well against good defenses, but he has been winning games regardless. He is playing his best ball when the game is on the line, that is amazing for a rookie.

More than anything else, you have to remember the Titans were 0-5 and not a good team at all. Now Vince Young is 7-4 as a starter and the Titans are 7-7. When Roethlisberger racked up all those wins as a rookie it was with a really good team, Young has turned a bad team around and he is in the midst of a 5 game winning streak. I can only imagine how good they can be next year when the Titans pick up a few quality free agents in the off season. Having a top notch reciever will only make Young more dangerous as a passer and runner.

I think Young is going to be a good quarterback for a long time in this league. With his past history it is just to hard for me not to think that. Like VY or not it is glaringly obvious that this guy is a winner.

[Tennessee_Stud]

Vince wins. THats it, he wins with a team many thought would be fighting fr the first pick of the draft. He is winning with a team that started 0-3 under Kerry Collins, and has since turned them into a 7-7 team. He wins with not a single true #1 reciever, with a makeshift O-line that has two different starters than when the season begins. He win when his #2 reciever, his #1, #2, and #3 TE are out. He wins against a Superbowl favorite, loses to another contender by 1. He has set two NFL records his rookie year. He has he second most wins for a rookie QB ever. He is frontrunner for rookie of the year, and will certainly win it if the TItans end at 9-7. I can go on and on guys. But really, how many Qbs have accomplished so much in so little time?

[|(evin|(olb|(ritik]

Vince wins. THats it, he wins with a team many thought would be fighting fr the first pick of the draft. He is winning with a team that started 0-3 under Kerry Collins, and has since turned them into a 7-7 team. He wins with not a single true #1 reciever, with a makeshift O-line that has two different starters than when the season begins. He win when his #2 reciever, his #1, #2, and #3 TE are out. He wins against a Superbowl favorite, loses to another contender by 1. He has set two NFL records his rookie year. He has he second most wins for a rookie QB ever. He is frontrunner for rookie of the year, and will certainly win it if the TItans end at 9-7. I can go on and on guys. But really, how many Qbs have accomplished so much in so little time?

.............he wins when his defense scores 21 of his teams 24 points and he is unable to move the offense when he is on the field.

[Tennessee_Stud]

.............he wins when his defense scores 21 of his teams 24 points and he is unable to move the offense when he is on the field.
Oh Eagle Phil! Who is using one game to disparage the whole now? You tell us not to like Vince because he played only 3 good games, but now who is extrapolating. BTW, you only prove my point more, VINCE WINS!

[|(evin|(olb|(ritik]

Oh Eagle Phil! Who is using one game to disparage the whole now? You tell us not to like Vince because he played only 3 good games, but now who is extrapolating. BTW, you only prove my point more, VINCE WINS!

Or I could say that shaved monkey trained to take snaps from under center could have won that game for the Titans.

How is it that I am using one game to disparage the whole? The whole disparages itself without my help. Lets look at the whole and while we are at it we'll classify this game as another poor one for Vince. So in 11 games Vince has played well in 3 and poorly in 8.

LOL, he doesnt need my help to look bad he does just fine on his own.

[Tiki Tiger]

Uhhhh anyone change their mind?

[Sascha]

Or I could say that shaved monkey trained to take snaps from under center could have won that game for the Titans.

How is it that I am using one game to disparage the whole? The whole disparages itself without my help. Lets look at the whole and while we are at it we'll classify this game as another poor one for Vince. So in 11 games Vince has played well in 3 and poorly in 8.

LOL, he doesnt need my help to look bad he does just fine on his own.

Hmmm, I must disagree. Now, keep in mind, he is a rookie on a team expected to be playing for the top pick in the draft.


10/01 - 14cmp/29att/155yds/1td/2int/47.3rate - 5rush/3yds/2fbl = bad
10/08 - 10/21/63/0/1/34.4 - 4/43/td = bad
10/15 - 13/25/161/1/0/85.6 - 7/9 = good
10/29 - 7/15/87/1/0/87.4 - 4/44/1 = not bad
11/05 - 15/36/163/1/3/30.2 - 4/14 = bad
11/12 - 13/25/211/0/1/63.9 - 8/39/1 = against Ravens, that isn't too bad
11/19 - 8/22/101/1/0/66.7 - 6/49 = bad
11/26 - 24/35/249/2/0/107.9 - 10/69/1 = great
12/03 - 15/25/163/2/2/72.6 - 9/78 = good
12/10 - 19/29/218/0/1/73.6 - 7/86/1 - good
12/17 - 8/15/85/0/0/70.1 - 4/4 = looks like the Jags have this guy figured out, bad
12/24 - 13/20/183/2/0/127.7 - 8/61/1 = great

So, out of 12 games, 2 have been great and 3 more have been good, and only 4 have been truly bad (not 8, as you claimed). The other 2 were certainly not great, but I couldn't classify them as bad either. He's done much better than I ever expected him to be.

[BigBenCan7]

Hmmm, I must disagree. Now, keep in mind, he is a rookie on a team expected to be playing for the top pick in the draft.


10/01 - 14cmp/29att/155yds/1td/2int/47.3rate - 5rush/3yds/2fbl = bad
10/08 - 10/21/63/0/1/34.4 - 4/43/td = bad
10/15 - 13/25/161/1/0/85.6 - 7/9 = good
10/29 - 7/15/87/1/0/87.4 - 4/44/1 = not bad
11/05 - 15/36/163/1/3/30.2 - 4/14 = bad
11/12 - 13/25/211/0/1/63.9 - 8/39/1 = against Ravens, that isn't too bad
11/19 - 8/22/101/1/0/66.7 - 6/49 = bad
11/26 - 24/35/249/2/0/107.9 - 10/69/1 = great
12/03 - 15/25/163/2/2/72.6 - 9/78 = good
12/10 - 19/29/218/0/1/73.6 - 7/86/1 - good
12/17 - 8/15/85/0/0/70.1 - 4/4 = looks like the Jags have this guy figured out, bad
12/24 - 13/20/183/2/0/127.7 - 8/61/1 = great

So, out of 12 games, 2 have been great and 3 more have been good, and only 4 have been truly bad (not 8, as you claimed). The other 2 were certainly not great, but I couldn't classify them as bad either. He's done much better than I ever expected him to be.

Well, for one, you have 5 games listed as "bad," not four.

I think the fact that a passer rating of 63.9 isn't considered bad and that a passer rating below 75 is considered "good" speaks volumes of how Vince has played.

[Blackmallard]

When you talk about Vince Young's performance you do also have to factor in his rushing, he has done a lot of damage running the ball this year.

[Sascha]

I never said I could count, lol.

Remember, I prefaced the post by saying "he's a rookie playing for a team expected to battle for top draft pick", so yes, those numbers are pretty good.

If those were Carson's or Brady's numbers, they wouldn't be nearly as stellar.

[Tiki Tiger]

To all haters out there,

where'd you go? i missed you so. seems like its been forever(-fort minor lol)

hahahah, being a kid again is great!!!!

[BigBenCan7]

To all haters out there,

where'd you go? i missed you so. seems like its been forever(-fort minor lol)

hahahah, being a kid again is great!!!!

What's his completion percentage again?

Barely above 50%?

[Chris Raiden]

What's his completion percentage again?

Barely above 50%?

52.6 to be precise...

QB rating of around 70ish...about 500 rushing yards...6 rushing scores...sounds like a bigger version of Michael Mike Vick to me really...wins a lot of games in the regular season, but doesn't do jack in the playoffs...he's got the first part of the equation, let's see if the second holds up as well...

-RD

[dbuilder]

52.6 to be precise...

QB rating of around 70ish...about 500 rushing yards...6 rushing scores...sounds like a bigger version of Michael Mike Vick to me really...wins a lot of games in the regular season, but doesn't do jack in the playoffs...he's got the first part of the equation, let's see if the second holds up as well...

-RD



hahahahahahaha? I am amazed at your expert analysis of VY. At the beginning of the year he was forecasted to be a bust to you guys. Now that he has solidified himself as a viable competitor in the NFL and chewed up and spit out hater nation we are getting the " but he hasn't done anything in the playoffs pitch" Wow!!! . What is also amazing is that a member of h-nation has refered VY and playoffs in the same sentence. This coming from the same chap that called him a bust. Wow!! Can we say break thru? Please don't try to deflect VY's rookie year accomplishments by referencing the career of the past Pro-bowl QB and a snub for this year Michael Vick. It is an exercise in futility for two reasons. One, Mike Vick is an excellent football player, two at this stage Vince Young plays the QB position better than Mike Vick and would probably be compared more to a Donavon McNabb and will one day be compared to Steve Young, once he becomes more effecient of course. And Wins a couple Super Bowls

[Sascha]

You know guys (Ben, RD, BBC), I'm really disappointed that you can't give the man more credit for what he has accomplished so far.

As I'm sure you all know, I was very much on the "Vince Young will be a bust" wagon, but he has shown me more than I could ever expect to see from a rookie on a bad team. You guys are spouting off his numbers religiously, but I don't think they're any worse than Leinart's, Smith's last year and other rookie signalcallers, especially when you add in his rushing totals.

[Showtime]

I really didn't want to post in this thread but I found some stats that were interesting.

During the current 6 game winning streak here are what his stats look like on average per game.

225 total yards, 1.67 TDs , 0.5 turnovers, 59.59 completion %, and an 87.67 QB rating.

Just for fun here what those would be when projected to a full season.

3590 total yards, 27 total TDs, 8 Ints, 59.59 comp %, 87.67 QB rating.

For a little more fun, let's compare them to...say...Tom Brady so far this season: 3407 total yards, 23 total TDs, 12 Ints, 61.8 comp %, and a 87.0 QB rating.

I know none of this really means anything but for a little more fun let me guess possible rebuttals: he played against horrible defenses that had 11 injured staters, Travis Henry is responsible for all/most of that, Pacman and the rest of the D is responsible for all/most of that...oh man...too much fun...my tibia hurts...gotta stop.

[BigBenCan7]

You know guys (Ben, RD, BBC), I'm really disappointed that you can't give the man more credit for what he has accomplished so far.

As I'm sure you all know, I was very much on the "Vince Young will be a bust" wagon, but he has shown me more than I could ever expect to see from a rookie on a bad team. You guys are spouting off his numbers religiously, but I don't think they're any worse than Leinart's, Smith's last year and other rookie signalcallers, especially when you add in his rushing totals.

I don't think anyone is calling him a bust, or taking away from what he has done.

Because I'm not ready to send him to the hall, or that he's shut up all of his "haters" after two games with a passer rating above 100, I'm suddenly a hater and not giving him credit? Because I don't think that his record as a starter is reflective of his performance when he somehow has an 8-4 record despite having a passer rating so low that only Joey Harrington has a lower rating?

Please. Stop with the "hater" and "not giving him credit" bit. No, I'm not going to say that a passer rating below 74 is somehow to be considered "good." If that somehow makes me a hater in a few's eyes, so be it. You couldn't be further from the truth.

[Sascha]

It just seems to me like some of you are harping way too much on the negative stats.

And there's certainly several on the other side too, that have given him too much credit.

But yes, the kid has done well under enourmous pressure to do well (especially lately, thanks showtime), and I think he hasn't gotten enough credit in that regard. I don't remember when the time came that rookie QB's had to be instant superstars in order to be considered good.

[Tiki Tiger]

Ok, but you cant really counts his first games cuz he is definitely an extremely different QB now...he looked like he was in the rose bowl when he player Buffalo.
But I agree with Rudiiii, that he is proving everyone wrong and some people just wont admit the are wrong(Merrill Hoge and others)

[BigBenCan7]

But yes, the kid has done well under enourmous pressure to do well (especially lately, thanks showtime), and I think he hasn't gotten enough credit in that regard. I don't remember when the time came that rookie QB's had to be instant superstars in order to be considered good.

:eek:

He isn't getting enough credit?

He was voted the 4th best quarterback in the entire AFC this season. He has gotten a ridiculous amount of credit, much more than any rookie with his numbers deserves, and that is the only reason that I have "harped on his negative" stats.

[Sascha]

:eek:

He isn't getting enough credit?

He was voted the 4th best quarterback in the entire AFC this season. He has gotten a ridiculous amount of credit, much more than any rookie with his numbers deserves, and that is the only reason that I have "harped on his negative" stats.


Sorry, I mean he hasn't gotten enough credit from the doubters. And he has gotten too much credit form the hype machie.

[BringEddieBack]

Sorry, I mean he hasn't gotten enough credit from the doubters. And he has gotten too much credit form the hype machie.

Agreed. I love Vince, but the fact that he's a Pro Bowl alternate over Brady is baffling. The craziest part about that is that Brady had a lot more fan votes than Vince... so Vince made up that ground in the player/coach voting.

[dbuilder]

:eek:

He isn't getting enough credit?

He was voted the 4th best quarterback in the entire AFC this season.


Daammmnnn Gina! ;) Didn't know that he was an alternate for the pro bowl. Voted in by the players and the coaches? Wow. :) That just makes me smile. That should send a real message to the detractors. The real experts/pros (NFL Personel) have spoken. This arguement about VY's impact is officially dead, at least until next year when he will be under an even more intense microscope. Until then eat your heart out sunshine. :D

[BigBenCan7]

Daammmnnn Gina! ;) Didn't know that he was an alternate for the pro bowl. Voted in by the players and the coaches? Wow. :) That just makes me smile. That should send a real message to the detractors. The real experts/pros (NFL Personel) have spoken. This arguement about VY's impact is officially dead, at least until next year when he will be under an even more intense microscope. Until then eat your heart out sunshine. :D

You can't honestly believe that he deserves that Pro Bowl Alternative choice...can you?

Was Vince's 39.9 passer rating, 2 interception, and 41.7 completion percentage performance when he had to play a real defense when the entire season was riding on the line enough to show that this kid does not deserve the credit he's getting?

There's your real message.

[Tennessee_Stud]

Big Ben is just mad cuz hiz own little Qb hit the slump this year.

[BigBenCan7]

Big Ben is just mad cuz hiz own little Qb hit the slump this year.

The whole "Well, your team sucks" argument is pretty pathetic.

Interesting that even in Ben's slump, he still mustered up a passer rating nearly 10 points higher than Vince Young, isn't it?

[Tennessee_Stud]

Big boy Ben is a third year starter who made the Superbowl last year. He has a little bit more to live up to.

[BigBenCan7]

Big boy Ben is a third year starter who made the Superbowl last year. He has a little bit more to live up to.

That may have been an acceptable excuse before Vince Young was picked as the 4th best quarterback in the AFC. Once he was given that title, he can no longer be held to a lower standard than those that he is considered "better" than (i.e. Tom Brady, Chad Pennington, Steve McNair Ben Roethlisberger).

If you want to hold him to a lower standard than the rest of the league's quarterbacks (which, obviously, he should be), don't vote him as an alternate to the Pro Bowl ahead of the players listed above.

[Wolverine]

Big Ben is just mad cuz hiz own little Qb hit the slump this year.

Right. That makes a lot of sense. I base all my arguments on that criteria too.

[dbuilder]

That may have been an acceptable excuse before Vince Young was picked as the 4th best quarterback in the AFC. Once he was given that title, he can no longer be held to a lower standard than those that he is considered "better" than (i.e. Tom Brady, Chad Pennington, Steve McNair Ben Roethlisberger).

If you want to hold him to a lower standard than the rest of the league's quarterbacks (which, obviously, he should be), don't vote him as an alternate to the Pro Bowl ahead of the players listed above.


I won't deny that I was shocked that VY made the pro-bowl. Your point is well taken. But my point is that VY is held with Very High esteem among the NFL community. The Pros have spoken.

[Blackmallard]

Hahaha, that is truely great. You could say Merrils analysis of Vince was "boarderline pathetic"

I think we can now say that his analysis was "borderline prophetic".

[GlasstheGrey]

I think we can now say that his analysis was "borderline prophetic".

Merrill Hodge said nothing about vince being a mental case. Vince Showed he can be a QB in this leauge and a successful one,

He's also shown a great lack of emotional maturity. But for his 2 years as the Titans Starter he was just as good as Lineart.

[BigBenCan7]

Merrill Hodge said nothing about vince being a mental case. Vince Showed he can be a QB in this leauge and a successful one,

He's also shown a great lack of emotional maturity. But for his 2 years as the Titans Starter he was just as good as Lineart.

And just because they were drafted together means that they weren't both busts?

Look at Vince's stats, he was never a competent quarterback in the NFL. Kerry Collins was able to take the same exact team Vince had to the best record in the entire NFL, he was never a "winner" as some like to claim, he was simply carried by a great team.

[MarvinMartian]

^You know the same claim could be made about Big Ben, and it holds alot of water.

I'm not saying I'd take a side in either arguement...but there is a lot of belief that Big Ben has been helped more by his team, than his team has been by him.

And say what you want, if a QB is in the game, and winning games, then he's a winner. That goes for Vince, Big Ben, Manning, Brady, even going back to Aikmen...

BTW, the Titans aren't really the same exact team last year and the years before. They had a devastating rushing attack with their rookie phenom RB last year that they didnt' have before with Lendale White and Chris Brown I believe...and that had something to do with Collins success IMO.

[Sascha]

He may be a winner, does not make him a good QB. Trent Dilfer won games in Tampa, and a Super Bowl in Baltimore, call him a winner, but don't call him a good QB.

Vince has won games, and let me just revert to the favorite statistic of a couple weeks ago, 17-20. Which QB would you entrust the future of your team to, Young or Cutler?

And I heartily disagree with the Ben take. He is a phenomenal quarterback. I believe he would excel in whatever system is given him. If he was the one running Martz' GSoT in St. Louis 10 years ago, he would have challenged the 5000 yard mark every year. Without Ben, or at least a QB near the caliber of Ben, Pitt does not have 2 rings this decade.

[BigBenCan7]

^You know the same claim could be made about Big Ben, and it holds alot of water.

Actually, it holds very little water. Let me know when Vince throws more touchdowns than interceptions in one season (let alone posts 3 seasons with a 98+ passer rating) then he can be mentioned in the same sentence as Ben.

[Texecutioner]

^You know the same claim could be made about Big Ben, and it holds alot of water.

I'm not saying I'd take a side in either arguement...but there is a lot of belief that Big Ben has been helped more by his team, than his team has been by him.

And say what you want, if a QB is in the game, and winning games, then he's a winner. That goes for Vince, Big Ben, Manning, Brady, even going back to Aikmen...

BTW, the Titans aren't really the same exact team last year and the years before. They had a devastating rushing attack with their rookie phenom RB last year that they didnt' have before with Lendale White and Chris Brown I believe...and that had something to do with Collins success IMO.

Come on now, VY has not been a winner in the NFL at all. It looked that way at first, but the minute that he was taken out the team not only was the same but even better under a cast away QB like Collins. That right there showed that it wasn't VY who made that team any better.

You can't seriously try putting VY's name and Big Ben's name in the same sentence. This isn't college anymore and what VY did in HS and in college has nothing to do with the pros where he has failed horribly and from all recent reports is still failing because he is still being stand offish. And if you think that Big Ben has been helped out more by his team, then you obviously didn't watch the Steelers this season and see how bad his O line was on offense and watch how he carried that offense all season. AND, have you ever looked at his numbers in 2007? He threw for 32 TD's and rushed for 4, so he accounted for 36 TD's in 2007 and his O line was pretty bad that season as well. This whole stigma that some of you have about Big Ben not being that great of a QB sure don't seem to realize that he's put up ELITE numbers before when his team needed him to and he has two SB's.

When I first got to this site years ago I argued on behalf of VY with plenty of folks in here, but had to admit that VY didn't pan out at all and I was wrong about him as far as the NFL. He played pretty well in his rookie season, but after that he's been dreafull and his attitude has been extremely immature. I don't think he is finished or anything, or that the final verdict is out on him yet but it's getting closer and closer the longer he doesn't play and keeps pouting about it acting like he is still at Texas.

[MarvinMartian]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a QB is measured mostly by wins and and losses...and he has more wins than losses.

That's how you determine a winner right? By Wins and Losses?

[BigBenCan7]

That's how you determine a winner right? By Wins and Losses?

Sure, but you can't deny there aren't other factors. Like if the player's team is winning because of him or in spite of him.

It's pretty obvious that, with Vince, it was the latter.

[Texecutioner]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a QB is measured mostly by wins and and losses...and he has more wins than losses.

That's how you determine a winner right? By Wins and Losses?

You haven't proven anything here. All you have talked about is how the Titans are a good team. How about trying to explain why and how the Titans were still not only good without VY but even better without him with a QB that everyone laughed at the idea of having as a starter?

A good QB is NOT always measured by Wins and Losses. He is measured by how he plays in those games whether the team wins or loses. It's not that hard to tell if you actually watch the games no matter who wins or loses.

Are you going to sit here and tell us all about how Grossman is a great QB? I mean the Bears won a ton of games with him as their QB, and went to the SB, so do you think he is a real good QB? Of course you won't because Grossman didn't go to Texas like VY did.

Look, I made similar arguments for VY after his first season with BBC, Eagle Phil, Yoho, and a few others in here and I ended up looking pretty stupid in the end of all that. And at the time it was only after his first season where there was a strong case to be made for him even though there was still a strong case to be made on the other side as well when you looked at his numbers and mistakes in many games.

At the end of the day though, his rookie season was the only real season where you could make any argument for him at all, After that he was awful his 2nd year and started off looking horrible last season in his first 2 games and couldn't even play well in pre season either. And then showed how immature he was when he refused to go back into the game and couldn't handle being benched. There is not one argument that could be made for VY at this point until he proves otherwise.

I love VY and always will. I've watched him since he was in HS at Butler Stadium and in the Dome, I've met him in person more than once, and will always root for the guy, but I won't sit here and lie for him and act like he's been something in the NFL that he hasn't. We're all talking about reality here, not what players we WISH were great players.

[GlasstheGrey]

Sure, but you can't deny there aren't other factors. Like if the player's team is winning because of him or in spite of him.

It's pretty obvious that, with Vince, it was the latter.

Vince wasn't that big of a Liability though. He usually always bounced back from a bad play with a good play.

Few QB's are all good plays all the time, heck few QB's can give you a Ratio noticably better than 1:1. The big thing with vince was he was always on when it mattered most. Being a Clutch playmaker is something you Can't coach into a player, it's a natural talent kids are born with or they're not. Vince has it. however as Tex pointed out his maturity was the ONLY thing keeping him on the sidelines last Season.

[jjflr]

i've always been a vince fan because he's fun to watch because he's unpredictable. he reminds me a lot of one of my favorite qb's of all time, randall cunningham, for the same reasons.

is VY a 'great' nfl qb? no, absolutely not. is he good enough to win some games in this league? yes, and he's fun to watch.

i hope vy gets his head screwed back on straight and gets back on the field at some point because i enjoy watching him play.

[Tiki Tiger]

Not saying VY is potentially a good NFL QB, but his receivers didn't really provide much help..at all

[GlasstheGrey]

i've always been a vince fan because he's fun to watch because he's unpredictable. he reminds me a lot of one of my favorite qb's of all time, randall cunningham, for the same reasons.

is VY a 'great' nfl qb? no, absolutely not. is he good enough to win some games in this league? yes, and he's fun to watch.

i hope vy gets his head screwed back on straight and gets back on the field at some point because i enjoy watching him play.

I agree with this. and I thought the Cunningham reference was fair.

[BigBenCan7]

Randall Cunningham threw for over 3,200 yards 5 times in his career, over 3,400 yards 4 times, and over 3,600 twice.

Vince's career high is less than 2,600.

Maybe you were thinking of Kordell Stewart? Now that's a fair reference.

[MarvinMartian]

Randall Cunningham is definately a fair reference.

No VY hasn't thrown for that much yet, but he's only started for a year and a half...it's not surprising that he hasn't thrown for over 3000 yards yet, now is it? LOl.

[Chris Raiden]

Randall Cunningham is definately a fair reference.

No VY hasn't thrown for that much yet, but he's only started for a year and a half...it's not surprising that he hasn't thrown for over 3000 yards yet, now is it? LOl.
The year he nearly threw for 2600 yards, he started 15 games. At a paltry 200 per, he would have thrown for 3,000 yards.

For the sake of comparison, exactly 20 quarterbacks in the NFL reached this figure of 200 per start in 2008.

And for the record, he's started 29 games in his NFL career, appeared in 33, that's closer to 2 seasons than it is one and a half.

-RD

[MarvinMartian]

That was his 2nd year in the league, and his first as a full time starter...he was still a baby by NFL standard. I mean don't let what guys like Ryan and Manning did as rookies...he's not a pocket passer, so he'd have to learn to become a better passer to start with, and the Titans new that when they drafted him.

You guys act like he should have come into the league and threw for 30 TD's, 3500 yards, and lit up the league, when that's simply unrealistic.

I'm not saying that Vince will ever be the QB that some think he can, or is the bust that others think he is.

But the one thing noone can do is prove that he's one or the other yet.

He started like 8 games his first year(and almost led them to the playoffs after a horrible start that year), and 15 his next when he did lead them to the Playoffs(that's just 23 games started or there abouts from what I remember)...so he's not exactly a veteran yet. LOL.

If he starts another 2 or 3 full seasons, and NEVER throws 3000 yards, then yeah, he'd probably be a bust and not comparable to Cunningham...but at this point you can't say one way or the other.

That's all I'm trying to say. Some of you just seem to hate him and never think he'll amount to anything, and that's fine...but let's not go acting like the books been written on him...at least not yet.

[Chris Raiden]

He started like 8 games his first year, and 15 his next(that's just 23 games started or there abouts from what I remember)...he's not exactly a veteran yet. LOL.

To quote Wedding Crashers, ERRONEOUS!!!

(sorry, had to be done)

Young started 13 games as a rookie, not 8, and 15 his second year. While I'm not expecting what you put up there, I'm expecting reasonable progress as a passer from Year 1 to Year 2.

It never happened.

His completion percentage went up, however, his TD:INT ratio went from halfway decent for a rookie (12:13) to horrendous for anyone (9:17). That's not exactly progress in my book.

Year 3, he starts out playing roughly similar ball, gets benched, team goes on to best record in conference without him.

-RD

[MarvinMartian]

I thought he only started half the season for them in 06, but if that's true he started 13, it doesn't change too much for me...he's still only started less than 2 seasons in the league.

But he only started 1 game in 08 right? So I wouldn't say he was definately going to be playing the same type of ball as previously.

And If I remember correctly, he got hurt in the first game and sat because of an injury, then the coach decided to stick with Collins from there on out, after all the stuff about him supposedly "quitting" happened.

But, Yes you are correct, there should be some improvement from year 1 to 2, but some guys take several years to develop and get better, as most of us who follow the NFL know that. Not everyone gets it in their first or second year, and there's no telling, unless he starts again, whether or not he'll ever improve.

And much like the Steelers would go on to win their division without Big Ben IMO, I don't think we'd bash him for that. Tennessee has a GREAT team on both sides of the ball that are built to help their QB's, and even win in spite of them IMO.


As I've said, it's WAY too early to write the book on him. It's just that you can't really say for certianty rather he'll never be worth his pick or not, at least not yet.

I don't know how else to say it other than that. If you want to take 2 seasons, and decide he's never going to be a quality NFL QB, then there's obviously nothing I can say to change that. I myself, would rather take a "Wait and See" approach with him, and all QB's who haven't played more than 2 years...and believe all of us should do the same is all.

Edit: and I wasn't taking a shot at Big Ben, just so you know. I was just saying that Pitt would be just fine with their back up if they had to, but they would definately not be better off without Big Ben.

[NitroHonda]

No way will Tennessee renew Vince's contract in 2010. I can't see it happening. So... he's got two seasons left with Fisher. Fisher is somewhat of a developmental coach... by that I mean he's known for having the patience to develop players. Vince has been benched twice. He lost his job to Kerry Collins, a back-up QB. I'm fairly confident that the Titans will give up on the Vince Young project if he can't beat out Patrick Ramsey for the back up slot. That means a roster slot will be wasted by having to retain a viable back up in addition to Vince.

Marvin, I loved Vince Young for what he did at Texas but he sucks now. Bad.

[MarvinMartian]

^That's all fine and good, and solid points.

But even if it wasn't Vince we were talking about, I'd say the same thing.

He hasn't been there, or played enough, to say rather or not he's a bust, and will eve amount to anything.

That's all.


Hell, I'm not even saying I think he'll be a good QB, I haven't seen enough from him to determine that yet.



BTW, why are you following us around Nitro?!? LOL.

[Chris Raiden]

I generally agree that you need more than three years to evaluate a quarterback's development, however, there comes a point where you have to sit back and say to yourself "ok, this guy's clearly not making progress, what went wrong?"

In this case, I think we're at that point. He has to make progress from the bench (not the best place to do it) and realistically, he's running out of time to show some progress towards being an NFL quarterback.

-RD

[NitroHonda]

I was invited here. If that's a problem for you then I'll mosey on elsewhere. I'm still looking for another home, Marvin. I'm happy where I am but I'm ready to expose myself to fans of other teams rather than my own which is where I've been, local team sites.

We also have to remember that Vince lost his locker room. When your teammates lose confidence in their QB... it makes the road to redemption all that much harder.

I'm ready to write him off. The magic's gone.

[MarvinMartian]

Calm down Nitro. I wasn't saying go away or anything like that, lol.

Just ribbing you a bit.


You're just as welcome here as I am, since this has nothing to do with our other sites, and the issues you have over there should be nonexistant here, lol.